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and their was no bad grammer in that OP,so i dont know hat yiz are sayin,,,oooh sorry i spelled the word you's a different way,my grammer is sooo bad,whats even more sad'er is that people think that their better than you,and feel the need to stick their noses up and slag your grammerI(get a life).
That said however I did more than point out your bad grammar, but I note you ignored the rest of the post.
i wasnt in the best of humour last night and i did read your post and i didnt mind what you said it was what ovcatto said but he probly didnt mean it a bad way,i dont know,sorry if i sounded too narky.
i wasnt in the best of humour last night and i did read your post and i didnt mind what you said it was what ovcatto said but he probly didnt mean it a bad way,i dont know,sorry if i sounded too narky.
Wisdom is knowing when to stop posting on forums Despite how combative and into debate I may seem in my posts I NEVER post unless I am in a good mood, well fed, clear thinking and not distracted. I certainly do not post if I am feeling emotional, especially negatively emotional.
Thats just me though, take from it what you find useful and disregard the rest.
You called my standard ridiculous. My standard is that personal experience is the only valid form of proof. The alternative to personal experience is taking someone else's word for it.
So, if you think that personal experience is a ridiculous standard, then you must expect me to take other people's word for it.
If you own a car you put your belief in the auto manufacturer that your vehicle is safe. Unless you grow and raise your own food you put your faith in others that its safe. You do put your faith in was other do or say even if it is unsaid.
I don't own a car, and I don't care if my food is safe. Sometimes, I get sick from the food I eat. No big deal.
I know. I know what I said. My issue is not with what I said... but with what I did NOT say and you lied and said I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar
My standard is that personal experience is the only valid form of proof.
So? Read back over my posts. THAT is not what I called ridiculous. I said what was ridiculous was the concept that one needs to SEE something in order to know it is there. There are a number of ways to establish the existence of something without sight.
So what I said had nothing to do with taking peoples word for it at all so when you claimed I told you to take peoples word for it... you outright lied about what I said.
Summary:
1) You asked how you can establish something is there if you can not see it POST #184
2) I answered that thinking you have to see something in order to know it is there is a ridiculous standard of proof #185
3) YOU not me brought up “taking peoples word for it”. I never once said anything about personal experience OR taking peoples word for it. #186
4) I asked when I EVER suggested taking peoples word for it #187
5) You outright lied and said I told you to take peoples say so #188
And you have been compounding the lie ever since.... and can not quote me EVER saying what you claim I did. See how I CAN quote and link to what I am claiming is true however.
Lying is bad enough, but being caught and sticking to the lie when the other person (me) can link to the black and white evidence is just madness.
No, my argument hinges on the fact that words have meanings. And I use those meanings to make my argument.
You cannot go from unknown to definite, unless you prove it, but then it becomes known. If it is known, it is either definitely true, or definitely false. But if it is unknown, it is not definite, it is unknown, and thus possible. The only way for it to be NOT possible is if you are able to show that it is not.
So, for all unknowns, unless you'd like to provide some actual proof that these things are impossible (making them knowns), then they are possible.
Again your argument breaks down to:
"Unknown means possible because I say so".
The unknown doesn't automatically fall under possible, because it just may be impossible.
How do you go from UNKNOWN to - DEFINITE. How is it possible, that you can take what I type, and flip it around so you can use the opposite meaning of what I said? If you look up the definitions of these two words, maybe you will understand that "words have meanings".
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar
I'd have to see it to believe it...
I'd have to have personal experience of it.
Hence, by having personal experience, I could see it, and thus believe it.
Otherwise, I would have to take someone else's word for it, which I am not willing to do.
TK doesn't believe electronics manipulates electrons.
TK doesn't believe a adult he has never meet in his life was once a child.
Tk doesn't believe that his food in the supermarket was grown.
Tk doesn't believe in molecules
Tk doesn't believe that I had to type this post out 1 letter at a time.
Tk doesn't believe in viruses.
Tk doesn't believe in bacteria
Tk must then, not wash his hands after he goes to the toilet.
Tk must do many silly little things like this which will probably get him killed.
Tk doesn't know that walking in front of a car doing 100 miles an hour would probably hurt if he wasn't killed instantly.
TK doesn't know jumping off the second story building would hurt.
This list could go on for quite some time, if you require a "personal experience".
Your "belief", is base neither on reason, or evidence, but subjective experience, or desperate emotional desire for your belief to be true.
I know. I know what I said. My issue is not with what I said... but with what I did NOT say and you lied and said I did.
So? Read back over my posts. THAT is not what I called ridiculous. I said what was ridiculous was the concept that one needs to SEE something in order to know it is there. There are a number of ways to establish the existence of something without sight.
So what I said had nothing to do with taking peoples word for it at all so when you claimed I told you to take peoples word for it... you outright lied about what I said.
Summary:
1) You asked how you can establish something is there if you can not see it POST #184
2) I answered that thinking you have to see something in order to know it is there is a ridiculous standard of proof #185
3) YOU not me brought up “taking peoples word for it”. I never once said anything about personal experience OR taking peoples word for it. #186
4) I asked when I EVER suggested taking peoples word for it #187
5) You outright lied and said I told you to take peoples say so #188
And you have been compounding the lie ever since.... and can not quote me EVER saying what you claim I did. See how I CAN quote and link to what I am claiming is true however.
Lying is bad enough, but being caught and sticking to the lie when the other person (me) can link to the black and white evidence is just madness.
Hence, by having personal experience, I could see it, and thus believe it.
Otherwise, I would have to take someone else's word for it, which I am not willing to do.
I've never seen TK, therefore I do not believe in his existence - except, perhaps, as a stream of annoying words on my computer monitor.
I wish ya'll would just drop this pointless drivel and focus on the OP. I've offered some clear and detailed reasons for why I am an atheist, and I would like to see some theists respond, but my posts are immediately buried under the deluge of squabbling about the possibility of impossible possibilities being impossible to know without direct personal proof...or whatever.
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Despite how combative and into debate I may seem in my posts I NEVER post unless I am in a good mood, well fed, clear thinking and not distracted. I certainly do not post if I am feeling emotional, especially negatively emotional.
