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Why would they attend services in a public building, considering they (and the majority of the Founding Fathers) were Agnostic/Deists and also firmly believed in separation of Church and State?
I was quoting the library of congress, so if I am wrong is the Library of Congress.
While I don't like all of Thomas Jefferson's theology, a man who wrote his own version of the Bible.
Who said in his First Inaugural Address March 4, 1801
" And may that Infinite Power which rules the destinies of the universe lead our councils to what is best, and give them a favorable issue for your peace and prosperity."
In the very letter that the words separation of church and state was first penned he also wrote " "I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."
He can't be said to be against religion. Also if you look at his record as Governor you will discover that he declared days of prayer and fasting for the State of Virgina. And the University of Virgina which he helped start mandated religious studies. I lost my notes so I can't give you an exact quote for this part.
While I don't like all of Thomas Jefferson's theology, a man who wrote his own version of the Bible.
In the very letter that the words separation of church and state was first penned he also wrote " "I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."
That is a rather generic prayer, much like the one that the Hindu gave in the Senate recently. Stating "the common father and creator of man" could refer to anything from Watanka/The Great Spirit of the Native Americans to Brahma, Allah or whatnot. Similar to the generic "God" that is mentioned on our currency.
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He can't be said to be against religion.
Right, not against religion in a political sense, except for the establishment of any one over the others as the "official" religion of the country. I am not against religion even though I find it absurd and have no use for it.
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Also if you look at his record as Governor you will discover that he declared days of prayer and fasting for the State of Virgina.
My understanding is that he did that for the benefit of the Christians as part of his "job" as Governor. Just as others have instituted Black History month, Veteran's Day etc. over the years. As a leader, you don't have to be a member of a group to grant holidays and observances for said group.
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And the University of Virgina which he helped start mandated
religious studies.
Religious studies or exclusively Christian studies? There is a difference. Most colleges and schools have religious studies (study of religion).
Location: Newton, NJ (but my heart is in Tennessee)
311 posts, read 1,376,864 times
Reputation: 279
Their actions are rude and obnoxious. While I am an ardent defender of freedom of religion, I also realize that this freedom is for all religions, not merely for the one we happen to practice. I think it is great that we have chaplains in congress and they have the constitutional right to be there. You don't have to agree with the Hindu chaplain but he has as much right to be there as chaplains from any other religion.
How did we get from calling them "extreemists" to calling them "terrorists?" Did they really threaten to hurt or kill anyone? Seriously, let's call a spade a spade and not over-read into this.
These people have some issues, what they did was completely wrong.
How did we get from calling them "extreemists" to calling them "terrorists?" Did they really threaten to hurt or kill anyone? Seriously, let's call a spade a spade and not over-read into this.
These people have some issues, what they did was completely wrong.
I agree that "terrorists" is a bit overblown. Have you seen footage of government meetings in Korea and other countries with fist fights breaking out? Or the yelling in British Parliament?
Maybe the mods can change the title. How about "those loopy Christians are at it again!" "Guess who's coming to Dinner...", or "This Hindu walks into the Senate chambers...."
Their actions are rude and obnoxious. While I am an ardent defender of freedom of religion, I also realize that this freedom is for all religions, not merely for the one we happen to practice. I think it is great that we have chaplains in congress and they have the constitutional right to be there. You don't have to agree with the Hindu chaplain but he has as much right to be there as chaplains from any other religion.
As much as I have sympathy for the Hindu chaplain in this incident, and support his right to his religion, I don't feel that it is appropriate under the Constitution for ANY chaplain/priest etc. to be praying in any government building or at any government function. If you're going to have prayer involved at all, then have a moment of silence and let all present pray to themselves as they see fit. Keep the display of religion where it belongs - in the churches, temples and individual's homes.
Turns out the three extremists all belong to the Christian Right anti-abortion group "Operation Save America" and apparently traveled to Washington all the way from North Carolina. This is the same group that has been in the news for harassing gays and protesting military funerals.
Operation Save America put out the following press release, claiming responsibility for the protests and castigating Senators for not joining in:
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Theology Moved to the Senate and was Arrested
Theology has moved from the church house onto the floor of the United States Senate, and has been arrested.
Ante Pavkovic, Kathy Pavkovic, and Kristen Sugar were all arrested in the chambers of the United States Senate as that chamber was violated by a false Hindu god. The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God, Jesus Christ. This would never have been allowed by our Founding Fathers.
Not one Senator had the backbone to stand as our Founding Fathers stood. They stood on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! There were three in the audience with the courage to stand and proclaim, 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.' They were immediately removed from the chambers, arrested, and are in jail now. God bless those who stand for Jesus as we know that He stands for them."
Rev. Flip Benham, Director, Operation Save America/Operation Rescue
What a joke! Newsflash guys - the Senators didn't stand with you because they thought you were nutjobs like 99% of the country does.
Last edited by Jabberwocky; 07-24-2007 at 07:59 PM..
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