Who's The Judge--God or Jesus? (marriage, Commandment, repentance, believe)

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by kaykay

Just for the record, in case I haven't made this well-known,, I totally do not believe in universalism or predestination, but I do want to interject this one thing here.

No, God never specifically said He wasn't "selfish," but I think He has certainly implied that when He speaks repeatedly in scripture of His mercy and lovingkindness and justice. (I think you can have a righteous jealousy without being selfish.)

My thoughts exactly kaykay! I gotta say John...do you really like where you were going with that thought? I sure don't.

[johnrex62]

Originally Posted by kaykay

Just for the record, in case I haven't made this well-known,, I totally do not believe in universalism or predestination, but I do want to interject this one thing here.

No, God never specifically said He wasn't "selfish," but I think He has certainly implied that when He speaks repeatedly in scripture of His mercy and lovingkindness and justice. (I think you can have a righteous jealousy without being selfish.)

kaykay, this sounds like the discussion Jeff and I had on Love and Passion.

I have a hard time understanding jealousy without selfishness since jealousy is an emotion dealing with protection of self interest and/or possession. It seems a requirement to have a certain amount of selfish interest in order to become jealous. God's use of Jealous to describe his nature was in regard to sharing his worship with other gods. Why use this term if selfishness was not key to this refusal to share? He did not choose to explain his motives for any of the other commandments. It makes me think God felt he needed to explain this one because it created an incongruity in the minds of the people.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by johnrex62

kaykay, this sounds like the discussion Jeff and I had on Love and Passion.

I have a hard time understanding jealousy without selfishness since jealousy is an emotion dealing with protection of self interest and/or possession. It seems a requirement to have a certain amount of selfish interest in order to become jealous. God's use of Jealous to describe his nature was in regard to sharing his worship with other gods. Why use this term if selfishness was not key to this refusal to share? He did not choose to explain his motives for any of the other commandments. It makes me think God felt he needed to explain this one because it created an incongruity in the minds of the people.

Yes John, but we were created in God's likeness and image, with some of His nature. I would never CONCIEVE of what we have discussed regarding my children. Do I believe in punishing them? Yes!!! Absolutely! But torturing them endlessly, or destroying them?

Men have ascribed to God imperfections that they would deplore in themselves. --W. Somerset Maugham

[irishmom]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

Do I believe in punishing them? Yes!!! Absolutely! But torturing them endlessly, or destroying them?

You have obviously never been to the supermarket with my 5 year old.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by johnrex62

kaykay, this sounds like the discussion Jeff and I had on Love and Passion.

I have a hard time understanding jealousy without selfishness since jealousy is an emotion dealing with protection of self interest and/or possession. It seems a requirement to have a certain amount of selfish interest in order to become jealous. God's use of Jealous to describe his nature was in regard to sharing his worship with other gods. Why use this term if selfishness was not key to this refusal to share? He did not choose to explain his motives for any of the other commandments. It makes me think God felt he needed to explain this one because it created an incongruity in the minds of the people.

Additionally, I find this bit of Scripture to be telling...

Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem.

54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by irishmom

You have obviously never been to the supermarket with my 5 year old.

LMBO!!! Irish, I'm defending our heresy here!

[irishmom]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

LMBO!!! Irish, I'm defending our heresy here!

Ooops sorry just had a bad supermarket flashback for a minute there , it must be the percocet, carry on.

[arguy1973]

wheres judge wapner or judge judy when you need them...


YouTube - Peoples Court Judge throws out defendant / Doctor not Honey

[alicenevada]

Jeff,


Can you give me the exact scripture you are referring to when you speak of Jesus leading Captives out of the grave? I think I know, but I want to be sure. Yes, his death did make salvation possible for those 'captive to sins law' but I don't believe that proves that every since person will accept him.

God's desire for all to come to him and his ability to have all he desires shows a great harmony to me, not a contradiction. It is all rooted in his love. If he did not truly love his creation than he would dictate our consciences for us and never allow us to make our own decisions. Since wickedness is adverse to his desire as well, then the presence of evil in the world would already make him a failure. I dont believe that is the case. I believe he does wish all mankind to repent but the bible clearly shows that some will not and are not going to be forced into changing their minds. But as far as his grand purpose for mankind and the earth is concerned, all that he desires will indeed come to pass.


And we've already discussed your believe about God's supposedly creating evil. Most bibles read 'calamity' in that verse and therefore it can be safely determined that we are speaking of his exacting of vengeance in the case of dogged adversity to His will...not his actually being the one to beget evil. Satan did that.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

Jeff,Can you give me the exact scripture you are referring to when you speak of Jesus leading Captives out of the grave? I think I know, but I want to be sure. Yes, his death did make salvation possible for those 'captive to sins law' but I don't believe that proves that every since person will accept him.

1 Peter 3:18-20: For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey . . .

And...

1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Most commentaries I have seen do not agree on the meaning of these verses. I know my belief, as I have made plain.

Originally Posted by alicenavada

God's desire for all to come to him and his ability to have all he desires shows a great harmony to me, not a contradiction. It is all rooted in his love. If he did not truly love his creation than he would dictate our consciences for us and never allow us to make our own decisions. Since wickedness is adverse to his desire as well, then the presence of evil in the world would already make him a failure. I dont believe that is the case. I believe he does wish all mankind to repent but the bible clearly shows that some will not and are not going to be forced into changing their minds. But as far as his grand purpose for mankind and the earth is concerned, all that he desires will indeed come to pass.

Didn't God make it plain He desires that ALL come into the knowledge of the Truth? That no one be lost?

Originally Posted by alicenavada

And we've already discussed your believe about God's supposedly creating evil. Most bibles read 'calamity' in that verse and therefore it can be safely determined that we are speaking of his exacting of vengeance in the case of dogged adversity to His will...not his actually being the one to beget evil. Satan did that.

Actually, most Bible's do not say calamity. The Greek word used here for evil is the word ra`. It's numerous adjectives describing the meaning all mean the same thing--bad, evil, malignant. It is in fact the same exact word used in the Tree of of the knowledge of Good and Evil. (Which God created.)

This doesn't even get into the verse I quoted (one of several) that states, quite plainly, that God created Satan with the purpose of being a destroyer.