Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The truth? I don't tell someone what I believe unless they ask.
If they want to tell me about their religion they're more than welcome, and I'll listen and even tell them that I may not agree. But I think most people naturally turn it into an argument.
I used to as well, but then I realized that it was only causing things to be frustrating for me. Now when people bring up their religious beliefs I listen, I discuss, but I don't get emotionally involved and I don't get upset. If I keep myself calm then those I'm talking with tend to remain calm as well. It's clear that I'm not looking for a fight.
Honestly... if you're using most the atheists on this forum as an example then I can see why they think religion is being pushed on them... they're pretty pushy themselves. As an agnostic I don't know how many times I've had to tell atheists on this very forum that we don't believe in God but we also don't not believe in God. A lot of them ASSUME that they know what we believe and it's frustrating, and I know that a lot of agnostics on here agree with me. Maybe you and others like you are running into problems because you're just as confident in your answers as they are and that leads to an argument.
No I am using the atheist clubs I have been a part of and the experiences we have in life and in our clubs and on forums. I try to avoid talking about religion, it turns ugly, unless I have a level headed Christian then it goes well or we joke. I don't hide my atheism, I shouldn't have to. I know what an agnostic is,, I am not one. Atheists don't have the cush of, Well she just doesn't know, we may be able to convert or convince. We get the automatic: sinner, going to hell, infidels ( that's a funny one) we need to be saved and so on. Gets old and tiring. I am done running from fights or avoiding them just to please others, if they dont like what I have to say, too bad, don't ask. I dont ask them to inquire in my beliefs or what church I attend, then act like I have the plague when I state I am an atheist. If they are that insecure as to have to avoid me or rip the symbols off my car because they dont like them, that is their issue. They have been saying their beliefs for years with my mouth shut, not anymore. And I am happy to be confident in my answers.
No I am using the atheist clubs I have been a part of and the experiences we have in life and in our clubs and on forums. I try to avoid talking about religion, it turns ugly, unless I have a level headed Christian then it goes well or we joke. I don't hide my atheism, I shouldn't have to. I know what an agnostic is,, I am not one. Atheists don't have the cush of, Well she just doesn't know, we may be able to convert or convince. We get the automatic: sinner, going to hell, infidels ( that's a funny one) we need to be saved and so on. Gets old and tiring. I am done running from fights or avoiding them, if they dont like what I have to say, too bad. They have been saying theirs for years with my mouth shuts, not anymore.
Hmmm, well I think like attracts like.
I'm agnostic, but it's not the most important thing about me. I'm pretty relaxed in real life and I rarely get into fights or arguments, but I have had some really incredible discussions with people from all sorts of religious backgrounds because I'm willing to listen to them. I don't make them feel wrong for their beliefs and I don't feel the need to defend my own because they're not actually attacking my beliefs. Telling me what you believe isn't attacking unless you perceive it to be that way.
I think when you have an attitude that you're being attacked, you will be attacked. Even if you're not being attacked, that's what you'll perceive because that's the attitude you have.
I don't feel this desire to "defend my beliefs" because I don't think my beliefs are being attacked. My mouth isn't shut, I simply use discretion and realize there's only a point in discussing my beliefs to someone who's willing to listen. Pointing out my beliefs to someone who's overly confident in their own beliefs will likely only lead to arguments. It's not going to achieve anything, so I don't see why I should bother.
I'm agnostic, but it's not the most important thing about me. I'm pretty relaxed in real life and I rarely get into fights or arguments, but I have had some really incredible discussions with people from all sorts of religious backgrounds because I'm willing to listen to them. I don't make them feel wrong for their beliefs and I don't feel the need to defend my own because they're not actually attacking my beliefs. Telling me what you believe isn't attacking unless you perceive it to be that way.
I think when you have an attitude that you're being attacked, you will be attacked. Even if you're not being attacked, that's what you'll perceive because that's the attitude you have.
I don't feel this desire to "defend my beliefs" because I don't think my beliefs are being attacked. My mouth isn't shut, I simply use discretion and realize there's only a point in discussing my beliefs to someone who's willing to listen. Pointing out my beliefs to someone who's overly confident in their own beliefs will likely only lead to arguments. It's not going to achieve anything, so I don't see why I should bother.
You don't know how I act in public but I love how you assume I always I like to start fights just because I am not wishy washy and firm in my views and others have issue with it. In fact, I would prefer not to get into the religion aspect with people, unless I know them well enough. I certainly don't make people feel that they are wrong, I simply state MY views on how I see it. I say nothing about them being wrong, only they can do that to themselves. Your beliefs are you don't know. That leaves little room for an argument, what are you going to argue about, you not knowing? You obviously never had to go into detail why you are firm in your opinion there is no god. Try saying, I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD OR ANY GOD. Then respond to, Well why? So I tell them why, then get "Well why do you hate god?".. Well I don't hate god, because I don't believe in him, to then get, well you know you will go to hell unless you open your heart and ask to be saved. You cant say how we should respond, because you don't get the responses we do. I really don't care if they try to attack my views, I can usually get them ( ever so politely) , which pisses them off. If they ask and I answer and they are like, well ok and move on, no issue then you have those that just ignore you after that Why should I have to be gingerly to them, why cant I just state my beliefs? I am always polite but to the point. Keep it out of politics, schools and the like and do it for yourself and all will be well.
I do know that the Jewish people are the only ones that have never judged me or argued with me about why I believe what I do. I enjoy great discussions with them, pagans, wiccans and others.
I think the word missing is "organized" yea, organized religions are definitely on the decline, its a slow process like everything else that evolved in life but its a noticeable one as well. If you cant see it either you choose to not recognize it or you haven't recognized it yet...
No, it's not. Not only is the time wrong, but the entire celebration, including the tradition of St. Nicholas (read up on him. nothing to do with Christ!) was purposefully hijacked by the church to belittle the original pagan celebration, one that cheered the return of longer days and the return of the growing season. Sacrifices of small animals, dancing around some icons, etc., all decidedly non-Christian activities.
To then arrive on the science and essentially crash the party is typical of Christianity. if Jesus really was born, if he even existed and was not just a handy stand-in to enable the lesser societal members to communicate with a common man instead of fearfully knocking on a frightening God's door? The lack of intermediate historical information on Christ's early adulthood life ('cause they left it out, 'cause he didn't actually ever exist!!) is also telling.
He was/is just an invention of necessity. IMH but logical O.
Actually, I am sorry to say this, your logic is not logical... according to historians of various faiths(and non-faiths), Jesus did exist. They have reasonable proof of his life aside from the bible. Sorry to burst your logic bubble.
Also, I know that early Christians stole many things from other religions. But, so has just about every other religion. Christianity just arrived on scene and the right time. Now, in regards to the whole Christmas thing and other stolen traditions... That was thousands of years ago. Do you really expect the Christians of today to pay the price of those that came before them? Stop using the churches history against them. The past is simply that, the past. The Christian church of today is far different than the one in the bible.
Quote:
Ans: you can invent any old holiday you choose! Be our guest! Nothing stopping you! Make it entirely and specifically Christian, so the rst of us can conveniently ignore it! Witness Kwanzaa, Hannukah, Yom Kippur, Easter, and so on. No-one's debating those. You just don't want to lose "the big one" with all it's marketable global attention. Ownership by thuggery, I'd call it.
Yeah... Christians are going around beating people up and stealing their holiday...Come on! It has been a Christian tradition to celebrate Christmas for over 1700 years. You expect them to just suddenly stop? Dec 25. has enough room for everyone.
Quote:
Kool-Aide drinking is, in fact, a clear indicator of blindered religious faith, not of any atheism. Jim Jones was, if I might remind, a leader of a religious cult, not of a group of dedicated scientists. his disciples were later characterized as social outcasts, of the truly frantic and needy, and not of clear-headed thoughtful logicians. You know, like most atheists you'll meet?
Yes, because all religious people are crazy and all atheists are clear minded individuals. I'm just going to leave this one be... obviously you feel that people who are a part of some religious belief are less intellectual than those that aren't. Might I suggest you read some studies on the matter before making claims like this...
Quote:
Remember, again, that atheism is simply and soley a lack of beliefs in a godly entity (based, usually, on careful thoughtful examination, not child-like lemming behavior brainwashed in to their naive gullible little heads from childhood, in Sunday School.)
Yes, all people who believe in a deity went to Sunday school and where brainwashed. Seriously, where do you get your info...Atheist tabloids or kindergarten playgrounds? People have been believing in a form of god(s) for hundreds of thousands of years. All you people see is the evil done in the name of a religion or God. Take a look at the amount of good that people of the same faith have done. It completely outweighs the bad.
Quote:
Science is only regularly involved in atheism in that it provides much of the necessary theory and facts that easily kill off the usual Christian beliefs, like a global flood, or a 6000 year-old Earth, like Genesis and tame dinosaurs being ridden by men.... .
Again, hate to burst your bubble(not really) but Science hasn't proven anything in regards to the beginning of it all. The global flood, yes it has been proven false. However, at the time of the bible how much of the world did these people know of? Not much, to them it a massive flood that actually has been proven to have happened could explain this story. But, there is a catch, many other old and some current have this same story with minor differences in their beliefs.
And... Where does the bible say man road dinosaurs? That is freakin awesome. I need to reread the bible again...for the 8th time. FYI, Science has just helped me burst your bubble, because scientists and archeologists theorize that man could actually have existed along side some form of dinosaur.
Quote:
No illusory god is required in our lives, for any functional reason outside of personal consolation and the perception of group membership acceptance (belonging to a "gang" for example...). He's not necessary for proper decent behavior, nor is He necessary for a satisfying lifestyle, and yet many prefer to have a God, and oddly, also want to force that need, through legislation or mandatory educational content, onto all the rest of us.
Many... I like how you guys always use the word many when comparing the lot of all religious(deity based) people and the actions they commit. I need to know, do you personally know every single religious person in the world? Wow, your facebook friend list must be huge. Seriously, most religious people who have a deity just keep to themselves or keep to their own circles. The reason you think most of them want to force it, is because most of the people you see that are vocal about it, are idiots. And that goes for any denomination and atheists alike.
I agree, thank god for Darwin and Jefferson for their work. I agree with Darwin, however... What or who created the beginning of all things? Who created the creator? If nothing comes from nothing, how did we get something? That question has always given me a headache, I need to get a beer and pray to Ninkasi the Goddess of Beer(no joke).
Quote:
BTW, I hope you're hard at work on your point-form list of what does not work in the established SM. I'm waiting, somewhat impatiently, for enlightenment! To see where my entire life's work and philosophies have been off in the wrong direction! Yikes!
Ok. What is the point of a life's work if that life's work is to belittle and destroy another persons life's work? If you prove that there is no God, you just proved that you wasted your time discovering something wasn't there. Would it not be smarter and more philosophical to work towards discovering the truth of it all rather than trying to debunk what some have chosen to believe? Isn't that like fishing in a pond you know has no fish, just to prove it has no fish?
Call it whatever you want but they don't own the day, they took it as they did many of the traditions, it was around long before Jesus or Christianity . Jesus is believed to not even be born on that day.
"religion...evolving"? That contains a certain amount of irony. Anyway, the better we understand the "world/universe that we live in", the less need there is for a deity.
Actually, until we find the source of it all, a form of a deity will be what most people believe as the reason for it all
I think the world would be better if religion became extinct.
People would have one less thing to judge each other by and kill each other over.
That is the funniest thing I have heard....ever! The world would not be a better place if all forms of religion went extinct. Lots of good has been done in the name of religion. Sure, bad things have been done as well. But, fortunately the good outweighs the bad. Just imagine if the people who have made the most change in this world didn't have religion. Take Martin Luther King Jr., he was a very passionate man and a man of God. I wonder where he learned to have such passion. Or how about Mother Teresa? There are plenty more...
And people will always have some reason to kill and judge each other. They will have one less reason to have compassion for each other as well. You choose to see the bad that religion has done, I am sorry for that. I challenge you to look for the good it has done as well.
You don't know how I act in public but I love how you assume I always I like to start fights just because I am not wishy washy and firm in my views and others have issue with it. In fact, I would prefer not to get into the religion aspect with people, unless I know them well enough. I certainly don't make people feel that they are wrong, I simply state MY views on how I see it. I say nothing about them being wrong, only they can do that to themselves. Your beliefs are you don't know. That leaves little room for an argument, what are you going to argue about, you not knowing? You obviously never had to go into detail why you are firm in your opinion there is no god. Try saying, I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD OR ANY GOD. Then respond to, Well why? So I tell them why, then get "Well why do you hate god?".. Well I don't hate god, because I don't believe in him, to then get, well you know you will go to hell unless you open your heart and ask to be saved. You cant say how we should respond, because you don't get the responses we do. I really don't care if they try to attack my views, I can usually get them ( ever so politely) , which pisses them off. If they ask and I answer and they are like, well ok and move on, no issue then you have those that just ignore you after that Why should I have to be gingerly to them, why cant I just state my beliefs? I am always polite but to the point. Keep it out of politics, schools and the like and do it for yourself and all will be well.
I do know that the Jewish people are the only ones that have never judged me or argued with me about why I believe what I do. I enjoy great discussions with them, pagans, wiccans and others.
I didn't say you start fights. I simply said that I think like attracts like. From your own posts your automatically defensive as if you think you have to argue your point, even though no one is attacking you here.
But I think your attitude speaks for itself. I didn't need to say it for it to be apparent.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
