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Ignoring it keeps it easy to deny it. But telling others that have seen it occur is like trying to unring a bell. Kind of like the scene in the Wizard of Oz -being told to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain; it is hard to ignore him while you're actually watching him.
Ignorance and denial are what they're all about. Their ignorance is their most prized possession. They won't give it up without one heckuva fight.
The problem of genesis not being literal but allegorical, then the whole premise of original sin and the jesus bits falls flat on its face.
This is why the creationists are so dogmatic about getting folk to buy into the garbage. Once creation is gone, genesis' adam and eve are gone, the fall of man is gone and then you are forced to acknowledge that there IS another explanation.
Turning to science, you are forced to acknowledge evolution and all the science associated.
All you are left with is maybe there is god force behind all this which levels the playing fields as far as all mythological gods that cultures invented.
I agree. If there was death of any living being before the supposed "original sin", the entire theology of Christianity falls like a house of cards.
Therefore, people who have bought into a lifetime of Christianity will double down on talking snakes, plant life before sun, etc.....
As I said in a previous post, I believe the light of the sun was on the first day even before the sun was created, for reasons stated. Just a theory as I also stated.
Did your god also create sin before he created man?
My "theory" is not "fear based" but merely speculative but two things I don't believe in are the "big bang" or evolution which are only theories, which leads me to believe, there is another other cause for the universe to be or for man to be.
Interesting comment. In your point of view, what is it about the Big Bang that leads you to dismiss it so easily? I'm not saying you have to believe it. I'm just curious as to why. I assume you've studied enough about it to be able to describe it in basic terms. What do you think it means?
I don't need my personnel conjecture/theory or what ever you want to call it, to validate my spiritual beliefs. My "theory" is not "fear based" but merely speculative but two things I don't believe in are the "big bang" or evolution which are only theories, which leads me to believe, there is another other cause for the universe to be or for man to be. You seem to have already concluded the one or the other or maybe both to be already true even though not enough of the so called facts [especially of evolution] are in yet to be had..
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle
So sorry, but your understanding is defective, and it's not my job to educate you. Evolution [i.e.: speciation by mutation] is now easily proven, and if you had to sit in my classroom and confront the obvious, you'd have to conclude, in front of your friends and your God, that it is obvious and easily proven today. You simply deny the facts out of fear, and you don't even try to understand the terms, conditions or even the correct definition. Too bad for your argument: an EPIC FAIL!
I'm sure you know that varve counting is debatable and according to other scientists, could be influenced by unknown climatic changes, and intermittent local flooding. Carbon dating is influenced by sunspots in time past and other factors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle
Nope. another EPIC FAIL on your part. Only by convoluting the truth can you deny varves. You've been reading those ignorant, biased and scientifically errant Christian websites again! While we geologists agree that there is room for an occasional error in a varve count, it surely covers FAR FAR more than a mere 6038.9 yrs, or whatever the nutball Creationist YEC'rs try to foist off these days. Fact: the world is very old, a fact that is part of the overall denial of the bible's entire hysterical story.
I never said that the universe was not an old one [but the earth is not] but that the stars came into being in an instant with age already in it. And If not, then tell me where did their matter and energy come from and where did life come from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tired_rifle
Q: who says that DNA's occurrence has anything to do with the origins of the stars? What a bungled line of reasoning you bring! Perhaps this is how you maintain your distance from the truth...
It is totally fanciful to assume that DNA found itself, wrapped itself in consciousness, and decided to make all life forms symbiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepingrifle
Decided by itself? you really need to take at least a high school biology course, because your conflations are absurd, and not worthy of anyone's time here. typical of the IDTr*!!
You act as if you know it all but your own field of study is in constant flux. You seem only to be hell bent on calling us "nut-balls", then to have a civilized debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle_maniac_man
Of course, I'm not hell-bent on anything of the sort, but when presented with obviously flawed "arguments", I have to respond, as you would if I insisted that your hair is bright red! I happen to have some serious education and professional experience in areas you obviously do not, as obvious in your errant commentary and statements. I simply offer factual debating points, but as is typical, you now resort to denying my knowledge.
BTW, we scientists all happily accept that all of our fields are in constant flux. That way we're never chained, as are the fundy Christians, to any outdated or possibly errant hypothesis. This does not mean that everything we have discovered to date is therefore "obviously wrong"! That would be a truly stupid assumption, and one racked with desperation.
I've already asked:
√ Which specific key elements of Evolution do you deny to exist or operate?
√ What are the major operating points of functioning biochemical Evolution?
You have no idea, obviously, and yet you seem to think that utter scientific ignorance qualifies you to deny it. How odd. How illogical. How uninformed. How...... well you get the idea.
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Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
You do know that evolution still exists today - right? Things are still evolving. Even as we speak - things are evolving. You can choose to believe the facts or not believe the facts. Facts will still be facts whether you choose to acknowledge them as such or not. As long as you aren't trying to teach children your personal theories as facts - I have no problem if you want to believe that the Tooth Fairy really exists or that unicorns are real.
Exactly, DewDrop. One only has to examine the spectacular new science of DNA genome mapping to see how chance mutation has proven to be one of the key elements of Evolution, [as we knew all along...] but then it goes on to track the advancing lineage of all the species examined so far. But of course it's also denied by our heroes of ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebnllnb
rifleman you'd be better off debating this subject with my border collies. They understand scientific theory as much as garya123 does. And they don't have any preconceived religious bias to color their thinking. Though their typing is very poor as is their spelling.
I agree. I've spent too much time on this dud case. And I'd far prefer the border collies; at least they appreciate my kind intentions towards my fellow evolved organisms. By comparison? "And man shall have dominion over the lesser beasts... blah blah blah" Organized Christian arrogance at it's best, huh?
I respectfully submit the truth to those with the sense to read and consider, not for those who chose to forever remain an IDTr* (Intransigent Dogmo-Theists; self explanatory.)
I was not talking about how the stars and planets were formed. I was talking about how it all began and when they appeared in time. My theory is that the planets and stars appeared in time in their matured state as we see them and yes they will change according to natural law.
Your "theory" (actually a hypothesis) is contradicted by all the evidence. Completely.
Check out the entire "Fuel Project" series. You might find it "enlightening"
Nope! I found it to be a total crock of .......!!!
I did enjoy the narrator however. I kept thinking "Get In My Belly!"
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Continued uneducated blubbering!
