Atheist: Are you standing on a soap box? (Buddhist, America, Muslim)

[mikebnllnb]

The reason many atheists are on "soap boxes" is due to religion creeping into our lives. Why are gay people still unable to marry? Religion. Why are school boards across the country trying to change science curriculum in classrooms? Religion. Why are nations at war today? Religion. As a society we would be better off without religion. The human race would be better off without religion of any kind. What has religion ever done for mankind that we couldn't have done without it? When I look at the holy books that the major religions of the world revolve around. I am baffled as to how millions and millions of people could believe them to be divinely inspired. I am confounded how few people think for themselves. Religion should not be taught to children until they are old enough do decide for themselves about the "truth" of a religion.

[SeekerSA]

^^ what mike said

[Nea1]

Yes, what Mike said!

[Djuna]

Yay Mike

[catman]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

Everyone thinks that it is always the religious and spiritual people that are standing on a soap box preaching to the crowds, trying to convert the masses. But, I know more Atheists that are standing on a soap box than I do religious or spiritual people.

Think so? We atheists don't have a "holy book" to endlessly quote from and make pronouncements about. I agree with your dismissal of the "my way or the highway" way of thought, but methinks your bias against atheism is showing. At least we don't have a place of eternal punishment to threaten others with.

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

What is wrong with people these days? When it comes to religion or spirituality why is it always, "my way or the highway?"

Honestly, I could care less what you believe. More than likely it is nowhere similar to what I believe. That also means that it is none else's business what you and I believe.

Everyone thinks that it is always the religious and spiritual people that are standing on a soap box preaching to the crowds, trying to convert the masses. But, I know more Atheists that are standing on a soap box than I do religious or spiritual people.

What's wrong with having a belief in something like a God, or something spiritual? Everyone believes something when it comes to why we are here and how we got here. Who cares if it is scientifically or spiritually based? Neither one can prove the other wrong. Science doesn't have all the answers and neither does religion. Science is simply theory when it comes to the "How we got here thing." They can't prove anything when it comes to the creation of the earth or even the universe, it is all just educated guesses.

So, I have to ask, are you an atheist on a soap box? or are you part of the crowd?

\

Geez, I'm sorry that you are being plagued with atheists knocking at your door, accosting you on the streets, forcing you to listen to them and handing out atheist tracts....All you atheists that do that....STOP IT RIGHT NOW!

[SeekerSA]

Kay thx bye

[Lindsey_Mcfarren]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

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Geez, I'm sorry that you are being plagued with atheists knocking at your door, accosting you on the streets, forcing you to listen to them and handing out atheist tracts....All you atheists that do that....STOP IT RIGHT NOW!

That's what I was thinking...I have NEVER had an atheist approach me pushing their ideas...JUST CHRISTIANS...and maybe some hari krishnas years ago (not sure how to spell that).

[raison_d'etre]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

I guess I don't know why you would think that. Not all atheist have the same beliefs - just like not all Christians have the same beliefs. Do you think that all Christians are either on a soapbox or a face in the crowd? Can the same be said for all Deists, Wiccans, Pagans, etc? I don't know why you think you have to be one or the other.

I try not to offend anyone's beliefs, either. I usually know what religion all of my friends are, too. However, some of my friends that are Catholic or Christian actually are agnostic.

Ok, What I mean by soap box is that the people on the soap box feel as if they are better than everyone else. The people in the crowd don't.

[raison_d'etre]

Note: use of the quote box would help me respond to you faster.

Originally Posted by rifleman

Answ: this is, rather, a particularly Christian affectation. What is the atheist's "way", pray tell? We simply don't believe in your, or any, God entity, since, after all, there's absolutely no physical evidence, and the written stuff is quite contradictory.

There is no physical evidence at all when it comes to the what and why of existence. Science hasn't even proved anything yet, it is all still theory.

Answ: then why do you come to a popular, public and open debate forum? This is not a soap-box format out in the city park, where I'd be disturbing your quiet picnic afternoon with my megaphone. Nope; you can choose to participate here or to leave.

Let us all know if you do ever see an atheist up on a soap-box though; it would be extremely rare!

You've never seen Atheists protest? Oh, wait you think they are always counter protesting. Wrong. I was recently at a "counter protest" for the WBC and I saw dozens of signs saying God doesn't exist, religion is dead or false, etc. We all choose to see what we want to see. I choose to see the truth, that both sides need to back off.

Actually, on a one-on-one basis, science has pretty much demolished all the old Christian "explanations" [esp., since they rely entirely on illogical, improbable and generally impossible MAGIC and defy common sense and observable evidence]. Science also demolishes blindered faith and the necessity for a convenient all-knowing omnipotent entity.

Really? hmm... so science knows what created everything? And I mean everything? not just in our known section of the multi-universe? All science has proven is that a 2000 year old book was wrong. Big deal, do you think that religion only goes back that far? Do you think that religion only deals with magic? Please, read up on the subject.

Of course, if you choose to believe in such improbables, that's entirely your right, and I do not object. There: on record! But... just don't come here and try to out-logic a rational, step-wise process, and then deny anything and everything that the Scientific Method (SM) discovers. Of course, you deny those discoveries only if they confound or fly in the face of some long-held religious nonsense. That part is of your making, not ours.

FYI, I love science and accept most of it. But, even science hasn't figured it all out yet and probably never will. Anything can seem logical, it all depends on your personal beliefs. To me it is logical that there is something greater than what we know and can see working behind the curtain. Call it what you want, I chose not to name it. Is it impossible to accept science and religion as both being right about things?

Yup; there it is: an off-the-cuff denial-dismissal of increasingly more thorough and logical guesses. And of proven facts like Evolution and our primate lineage. Of course, you parrot the standard "it's only a theory!" deflection and denial-babble, which completely mis-represents the correct definition of what a theory is in science. Predictably, you are trying to conflate it with some sort of off-hand out of the blue guess work.

No, I know how science works. Scientific theory and all that jazz. But, until we have actually traveled into space, not just the moon and near earth orbit. I mean send real people to other galaxies, we won't know the truth. Even then, we probably wont have any more understanding of it all. I ask, what is sciences answer to what created everything? Remember, according to science, nothing comes from nothing. Yet, we have something...

I'm willing to bet you could not, off the top of your head, provide us here and now, in point form, the key steps and requirements of the SM.

I believe it goes something like this: question, research, Hypothesis, experiment, analyze, and report. I think i missed something...

As well, how about all the facts we have uncovered, like Evolution, or ancient earth geology, or dinosaur dating or DNA genome mapping proving ancient lineages and links to our predecessor primates, .. or....

It's all just babble to you? Hardly. But I also understand that my rather extensive multi-degreed education in biology, biochemistry, genetics, geology and engineering, all of that taking well over 15 years, with an additional 25 years in professional careers which required that I get it right, probably somewhat exceeds your high school science class credentials, back in what was it, the '70srresearch?

Whoa, back up there. I never said science was wrong. Just that they don't have all the answers. Unless they do and I am missing something. I may not have any degrees yet, I don't need them to prove me right or wrong in a debate. All a degree is, is a piece of paper showing dedication and cost of funds on information that is freely out there. I am working on a few degrees myself and find them pointless, other than to get hired.

BTW, this is NOT some ego-tripping for me. Rather, I'm simply saying my ideas are always well-supported and referencible in the published literature. or in common sense and my field experience as a scientist. Your ideas come from what again? A frantic denialist culture, now officially trembling for fear of it's future demise at the hand of fact and

Common sense doesn't exist anymore. My ideas come from the years I have spent reading, studying and working with others. I dont need a degree to do that for me. My ideas are also in published and referancible literature, what's your point?

Factual things have advanced a bit since the old dayz, old sock. Oh, and don't forget the amazing power of prediction which a correct scientific idea provides. As in: if such and such is correct, we should then be able to see so and so. And then, when we do, then it sorta confirms our "wild theories", don't it?

Ah, but remember that even with science there is always a variable or something unseen just lurking around the corner to possible change those theories. It has happened before and will happen again. Just think of what science "knew" in the early 1900's compared to what we know now. Imagine what we will know another thousand years form now.

Face it; you don't have a case here. You just don't like the inevitability and strengths of modern scientific facts (also called "theories" in the professional trade, BTW...)

Sorry, that's just not how it all works, and that approach only shows it's you who are unread, except for time spent on those idiot Christian websites with their silly mis-information tactics and purposeful lies. How flattering for your side, huh?

I think it is funny that because I defend christian beliefs, that I must be Christian. Did I ever claim to be christian? And FYI, you assume that I am unread and that I deny modern science. Again, where do I state this? I simply said that science does not hold all the answers and like religion, it is always changing with modern times.


No crowd, no soap-box. Just the annoying truth, plowing on with inevitability and persistence. I've made my point. Your turn![/quote]

The only point you've made is that you have spent years of your life in a room studying and spending thousands of dollars on a piece of paper. A piece of paper that you use as a debate tool.

My point is, that you are a scientist. I am whatever I choose to be. I am a bit of everything. I choose to except that everything and anything is possible. I am open minded, you are not. The way your mind works is to judge, mine is to be open to all things. I debate on this forum to gain perspective from others, that is all. I am not here to prove anything, I don't think that anything out there needs proving. I simply except that it works the way it does because that is how it was designed to work.

BTW, thank you for debating with me. I honestly do enjoy it and have no harsh feeling towards you. You are a wise person and will do great things for this world. I applaud your dedication to your field.