Why Have Children When Our Extinction is Inevitable? (paradise, soul, hell)

[Hueffenhardt]

Of course, we might find a way to travel to distant planets and colonize them. Humans may survive the destruction of the earth.

[Nighteyes]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

So what point is there in keeping the human race going at all, especially if we're delaying the inevitable.

Were all of humankind to subscribe to this viewpoint, we would indeed cease to exist within a generation (maybe two, since its practically certain that some folks won't get the memo).

Phil, if you've posed the question as a matter for debate, good on you. However, if you really feel this way, perhaps you should consider talking to someone...

Regards,

-- Nighteyes

[Phil75230]

Getting a few common objections out of the way first ... namely those that boil down to "Why not just "off" ourselves?" This will get Cyrano’s and PanTerra’s points out of the way.

The core points center on one fact: There's an ENORMOUS difference between a not-yet-but-potentially existing person and one who already exists.

Reasons flowing from this one:

(1) Suicide is a traumatic experience to survivors (family and friends).

(2) Furthermore, only one in thirty suicide attempts succeed, with a huge portion of the remaining 29 left worse off than before (I can't vouch for this one, but the precise figures are neither here nor there. The point is that I think the great majority of such attempts do fail. and indeed many very likely are left worse off than before, depending on their method)

(3) Murder I don't support because murder deprives one of the ability to exercise their right to choose life. IOW, it's a non-consensual act concerning a very sensitive issue (and even that is an understatement) that cannot be undone. (I fully admit that I saw NO RESPONSE even hinting that I support murder. I just want this base covered because I anticipate somebody suggesting it).

Originally Posted by Stavemaster

Nothing lasts forever, so why bother investing in anything ever? Why bother taking care of yourself if you're just going to die eventually anyway? Why bother achieving anything in life? Might as well just shut out the world, huddle in your basement with a big bag of chips and the lights out, and watch cartoons, porno, or whatever you like and wait for the inevitable end...

Because failing to make accomplishments at least adequate to meet your basic household expenses will affect you and your family’s quality of life (unless you inherited all your lifetime spending money or won a lifetime’s worth of winnings from the lottery). While I believe we should lead as productive a life as we can, that’s a different issue from why we should create new people.

Originally Posted by Stavemaster

No. Most of us don't have children out of some sense of duty to the future, or a need to fight a noble but doomed battle against entropy. Being remembered would be nice, but it's not a driving concern for the majority of people.

Originally Posted by Stavemaster

Most of us are more concerned with how children enhance our lives by giving and receiving love, providing fun memories, and hopefully someone to look after us in our own old age. In particular I look forward to when my daughter is dating age so I can bust on every single boy she brings home. I expect it will be a lot of fun.

Now we’re getting somewhere (not said mockingly). To give love, provide fun memories, and look after us in our old age. So this means we continue to have children despite our knowledge of the admittedly far off death of the universe because of their utilitarian value (and to create someone in order to give and receive love is a utilitarian purpose, even if we don’t think of it in those terms).

Originally Posted by Stavemaster

Someday the clock will wind down for everyone, but by then my descendants will probably be so far removed from me that they may as well be unrelated, and it will be their problem. It doesn't make much sense for me to not enjoy my life and my family in the here and now just because the species is going to go extinct (or more likely evolve into something else) at some unknowable point in the future.

I’m all for you enjoying your life. As as we’re here, we might as well make the most of it. But, by saying “[Our future extinction] is their problem”, aren’t we just passing the buck down to someone else, even if our descendants are of different species?

Originally Posted by Nighteyes

Phil, if you've posed the question as a matter for debate, good on you. However, if you really feel this way, perhaps you should consider talking to someone...

Suppose I posted this question for debate AND agree with it? (I distinguish between "feel" [an emotional matter] and "believe" [a matter of rational thinking]). At any rate, the mental state of the questioner has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the statement. That's like saying 7 x 8 = 56 is wrong just because some schizophrenic said so during one of his or her severe episodes. Thus, casting aspersions on one's mental health merely on the basis of asking off the wall questions is not the best debating tactic.

[PanTerra]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

Getting a few common objections out of the way first ... namely those that boil down to "Why not just "off" ourselves?" This will get Cyrano’s and PanTerra’s points out of the way.

Don't put that on me. You seem to be obsessing on the futility of living. I am not telling you to off yourself. On the contrary, it is you that seems to see no sense in living. I posed a question to you, if you are consistant and want to expedite the inevitability in dieing, I was just wondering if you were, that is if you were being be consistant. It's on you.

[Phil75230]

Originally Posted by PanTerra

Don't put that on me. You seem to be obsessing on the futility of living. I am not telling you to off yourself. On the contrary, it is you that seems to see no sense in living. I posed a question to you, if you are consistant and want to expedite the inevitability in dieing, I was just wondering if you were, that is if you were being be consistant. It's on you.

Whether I find living futile or not is beside the point. But, as far as the consistency matter goes - even if one thinks life is futile, other moral considerations can overrule that wish in their own mind. I listed some examples in the very post you quote. Still, I agree that while any one person is here, they might as well make the most of it (for the sake of their family and friends, if nobody else). That's a different issue from whether there's a point in creating more children.

[PanTerra]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

Whether I find living futile or not is beside the point. But, as far as the consistency matter goes - even if one thinks life is futile, other moral considerations can overrule that wish in their own mind. I listed some examples in the very post you quote. Still, I agree that while any one person is here, they might as well make the most of it (for the sake of their family and friends, if nobody else). That's a different issue from whether there's a point in creating more children.

That's just sad. Futilities of futilities. Did you have some bad experience recently? Why go on if the universe is eventually going to go through a cold death. What a sad sack you are.

[Nighteyes]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

...casting aspersions on one's mental health merely on the basis of asking off the wall questions is not the best debating tactic.

Neither is making sweeping (and erroneous) generalizations about a genuine expression of concern.

-- Nighteyes

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by Reverend1111

While the material body may die off, we still have our soul. That's the part you really need to worry about. If your athiest, just don't worry at all cause you'll still be long gone before our extinction.

Not so subtle way of saying that atheists don't have souls?

But the rub is, neither do you so after the average 70 some years, our fate is the same, oblivion.

[mikebnllnb]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

In light of the fact that 99% of all species that lived are now extinct, why should we follow the dictates of our DNA and keep having them? Seems to me that all we're doing is postponing the inevitable, a futile battle when you consider that even if we do develop the technology to stop global warming (and even reverse it), and stop asteroids from hitting earth, the sun's slowly but surely brightening and growth over the eons will render the earth too hot for life (oceans boil away, in fact) - making it Venus' twin. For this reason, the earth's biosphere has another billion years of life at most. Even assuming we develop Star Trek type space craft that can warp us over to other stars where we can settle until that star too swells and bakes that planet (rise,wash, repeat) - the fact remains that the Second Law of Thermodynamics says we will run out of usable heat/energy eventually. That certainly will make the entire universe hostile to life. All this is provable fact. No theories pulled out of my backside - facts beyond any scientific dispute.

If the Earth and the rest of the universe will eventually turn hostile to all life one day anyway, then that means our extinction is inevitable. We can't stop the Heat Death of the Universe any more than the dinosaurs could stop the asteroid. So what point is there in keeping the human race going at all, especially if we're delaying the inevitable.

Why not just off yourself right now? Your only going to die one day.

Stupid premise. Idiotic thread!

[mikebnllnb]

Originally Posted by Reverend1111

While the material body may die off, we still have our soul. That's the part you really need to worry about. If your athiest, just don't worry at all cause you'll still be long gone before our extinction.

You must believe in the hereafter to attain it Huh? Why? What about those who's hereafter differ from those you believe in? Do their hereafters exist? Does belief make it so? The opposite? Does the fact I don't believe in my own soul make it nonexistent? Why does disbelief negate a well lived life?