Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-15-2011, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,090 posts, read 29,934,993 times
Reputation: 13118

Advertisements

I'm not sure if I'll be actually participating on this thread or not, but I would be interested in hearing, particularly from those of you who are agnostics or atheists, whether you believe it to be possible for parents to teach their children that there is a God without "indoctrinating" them? Looking at the flip side of the question, is it possible for parents to teach their children that there is no God without "indoctrinating" them?

In other words, is all teaching indoctrinating? Or is it only "indoctrination" if the belief being conveyed by parents to their children is not in line with yours?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-15-2011, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,455 posts, read 12,538,654 times
Reputation: 16453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm not sure if I'll be actually participating on this thread or not, but I would be interested in hearing, particularly from those of you who are agnostics or atheists, whether you believe it to be possible for parents to teach their children that there is a God without "indoctrinating" them? Looking at the flip side of the question, is it possible for parents to teach their children that there is no God without "indoctrinating" them?

In other words, is all teaching indoctrinating? Or is it only "indoctrination" if the belief being conveyed by parents to their children is not in line with yours?
Teaching is what is done in a home by parents who hold the same worldview as you.

Indoctrinating is what is done in a home by parents who do not hold the same worldview as you.

(I couldn't resist)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 2,893,044 times
Reputation: 1027
I think some indoctrination is unavoidable, especially when they are young before their critical thinking skills develop. But, as their critical thinking skills develop, I think we should foster and encourage those skills. Expose them to other people's ideas. See if your beliefs and values can compete in the free marketplace of ideas.

That is what I am doing. Although my wife and I are atheists, we have exposed our children to some of the beliefs and practices of Wiccans, Christians, Jainists, New Agers, and Deists in our UU fellowship, and Mormons (because all of our extended family are Mormons and we occasionally go to church with them). And our kids are still very young, ages 4 and 2.

My main concern with indoctrination is if the parents strongly discourage their kids from being exposed to things that might challenge their beliefs. Many Mormons are counseled to avoid what they call anti-Mormon material. My thought is, if the anti contains lies or misrepresentations, the person reading it can soon find that out, but if the "anti" contains truths which might cause a person to question their faith, then maybe their faith should be questioned so that they can draw nearer to the truth.

In my opinion, believers should be encouraged to read Biblical criticism (and apologetics). A mind that is encouraged to think for itself and be open to new ideas is not being indoctrinated. A mind that is encouraged to replace their own thinking with the thoughts of another (whether that be a prophet, parent, or cult leader) and to be closed to new ideas about certain core topics (because they KNOW they are right) is being indoctrinated.

Perhaps it would be helpful if we first define some terms.

From wiki:
"Brainwashing (also known as thought reform or as re-education) consists of any effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person — sometimes unwelcome beliefs in conflict with the person's prior beliefs and knowledge."

From phinnweb:
"Moderator cut: SnippetBelow is a list of the usual brainwashing/mind control techniques used in schools, hospitals, army, religious cults, totalitarian states; with political prisoners and dissidents, mentally insane, some versions of psychoterapy, etc., etc. "Indoctrination" is a more slight and more subliminal form of brainwashing (e.g. commercials). However, these concepts are nothing short of controversial and open to various interpretations.

1) HYPNOSIS - Inducing a high state of suggestibility, often thinly disguised as relaxation or meditation.

So, how do we avoid brainwashing our children? Perhaps it is unavoidable at least to some degree and perhaps not completely undesirable because most of us would like to instill some values in our kids. But, I also want my kids to think for themselves, so I have taken the list of brainwashing techniques and have made a new list of how to teach your children to think for themselves.

1) Discourage the passive acceptance of whatever messages the child is taught by teaching the child about how presentation methods manipulate the emotions and affect the likelihood of being receptive to the message. Commercials are a great teaching opportunity. You can discuss the role of the music, the announcer’s voice, the pleasing graphics, etc, plays in making the product more appealing and creating associations with pleasant feelings.

2) Reassure the child that they are still loved and belong even when they express doubt and resistance.

3) One must learn to foster independence by gradually cutting the apron strings and stopping the “hand holding”. Release the child so that they can learn to swim in the deep and ride their bike without your balancing it.

4) Encourage the objective evaluation by helping the child identify the good and bad of both sides on an issue or decision.

5) Encourage the use of logic by praising critical thinking.
6) Help child to identify both the direct message being conveyed by a speaker as well as any meta-messages also being conveyed. One might ask the child what the political ad said and then what other messages were being conveyed by what was left unsaid.

7) Encourage private contemplation. Set aside a little time each day, free of distractions, in which the child can reflect on the events of the day and what might he or she learn from them.

8) Teach child to be cautious of circumstances that decrease one’s ability to inhibit behavior, especially when there are others who might take advantage of us in that state.

9) Encourage child to question and challenge rules including your own. If you can’t defend your rules, then maybe they should not be rules. Child needs to be old enough to understand the advantage of social order in the classroom and the consequences of breaking laws.

10) Encourage the child not to tolerate verbal or physical abuse. Child needs to learn appropriate ways to stand up for her or himself and how to report abuses.

11) Help child understand the importance of getting enough sleep and exercise in helping maintain mental alertness and in decreasing vulnerability to suggestion.

12) Encourage individuality and also the value of striking a balance with conformity.

13) Encourage exposure to lots of different literature, philosophies, and religious ideas.

14) Help child develop personal boundaries and understand that it is best not to share their inner most feelings or weaknesses with people they hardly know.

15) Encourage financial independence, and a healthy skepticism of anyone wanting their money or trying to place them in a position in which they will be dependent on another.

16) Discourage judgmental attitudes.

17) Teach child to beware of those who would attempt to separate them from their support systems.

18) Help child learn to identify manipulation attempts, especially peer groups that withhold praise except for acts of conformity or obedience.

19) Teach child about how important nutrition is in helping keep one’s mind alert. Beware of drugs that loosen one’s control over one’s self.

20) Encourage child to really consider a situation before obeying.

21) Encourage child to question everything, especially authority.

22) Encourage child to be on the lookout for guilt-trips.

23)Teach child to beware of anyone who tries to instill fear in them.

A) When in a situation where repetition is unavoidable, encourage child to actively critique the message that is repeated.

B) Avoid over-scheduling the child.

C) Be consistent and respectful of the child

Last edited by june 7th; 05-01-2011 at 08:58 AM.. Reason: Re-formatted to adhere to copyright per the Terms of service: Provide link and a snippet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2011, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,090 posts, read 29,934,993 times
Reputation: 13118
Is the question too hard or what?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2011, 09:58 PM
 
1,743 posts, read 2,158,897 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Teaching is what is done in a home by parents who hold the same worldview as you.

Indoctrinating is what is done in a home by parents who do not hold the same worldview as you.

(I couldn't resist)
I couldn't resist either. Fixed those for you:

Teaching is what is done in a home by parents who want you to develop your own worldview.

Indoctrinating is what is done by parents who want you to only accept THEIR worldview.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2011, 10:04 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,029,399 times
Reputation: 11862
If your Christian and you feel it is your duty to tell people God's message, including your children, of course you'll probably want to tell your kids about that. Perhaps, though, this is best left to a certain age, perhaps say when you have the talk with them about the 'birds and the bees', or perhaps not. Of course parents are within their rights to 'teach', but at the age of 8 children will believe everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 2,893,044 times
Reputation: 1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Is the question too hard or what?
I wrote that long and very thoughtful post and then you come back with this?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,521 posts, read 37,121,123 times
Reputation: 13998
Teaching is sharing that which has evidence of truth...

Indoctrination is sharing regardless of any evidence of truth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,904 posts, read 6,013,333 times
Reputation: 3533
I find teaching to be more of just telling their child what the parents personally believe or telling their children what their religion is about.

Indoctrination on the otherhand is like keeping a child in a prison then throwing away the key. It happens when parents keep their child from learning anything contrary to the personal views of the parents. These kind of parents tend to suppress their child's ability of critical thinking.

Last edited by agnostic soldier; 04-16-2011 at 07:56 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 07:50 AM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,383,953 times
Reputation: 2378
It's simple. Indoctrination means to teach acceptance of doctrinines, uncritically. So, no, not all teaching is indoctrination. Furthermore, indoctrination often includes instilling fear for questioning and/or rejecting what is taught, so again, not all teaching is indoctrination.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:02 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top