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I believe you were the one that led with the assertion that it wasn't. So prove it.
No one who is objective, rational, reasonably intelligent and educated needs to "prove" that primitive, barbaric, anonymous men wrote the pamphlets which were - hundreds of years later - collated into a book.
you asked me if the OT was a red flag. I said it was such a big red flag that i didn't believe them in third grade. I knew at 9 the biblegod was not real.
All i am asking is when, at what age, did you realize they were wrong about the biblegod?
I became atheist 4 years ago. This was after actually reading the Bible in full with the intent to defend it. Yet, this has not been my issue with your previous posts. You have been dismissing being attributed atrocities as if they were typical natural occurrences. You seem to want to justify an indifferent unknown god by defend Christians belief in an absurd god. Maybe I’m wrong.
I believe you were the one that led with the assertion that it wasn't. So prove it.
I’m not the one with an extraordinary claim. You don’t get to defend the absurd evil actions of an unproven omnipotent god. As humans with a long historical record, we do understand right from wrong and good from evil, which is clearly evident in the fact we don’t practice OT moral tenants/laws. To say we can’t discern morality because we are not your unproven omnipotent god, is just irrational nonsense that makes you look like an indoctrinated religious zealot.
I became atheist 4 years ago. This was after actually reading the Bible in full with the intent to defend it. Yet, this has not been my issue with your previous posts. You have been dismissing being attributed atrocities as if they were typical natural occurrences. You seem to want to justify an indifferent unknown god by defend Christians belief in an absurd god. Maybe I’m wrong.
i said, if their was an all powerful, all knowing being, how in no-gods name would we know if what it was doing was the right thing to do or not?
i used the child example as a reference point to show the difference in it and us. Its actually more like we would be ants. If I had to kill 1/2 the ants on my lawn to stop overpopulation, dease, sickness, and slow horrible deaths in those ants and help as many as I could. them calling me 'evil" is meaningless.
that all I was saying. I was not minimizing it at all. i was being realistic.
yes, dying, waking up, and flying away for our sins is all i needed to hear. I knew they were wrong for as long as I could remember.
4 years ago? for some reason i thought you were older. I didn't know you weren't even out of teens yet. my bad. i would have cut you more slack.
No one who is objective, rational, reasonably intelligent and educated needs to "prove" that primitive, barbaric, anonymous men wrote the pamphlets which were - hundreds of years later - collated into a book.
lmao, this is my area of expertise. But i yield your wisdom.
in fact, I am backing from you ... just in case.
I just reread that .. I meant I am standing with you, but I am backing up so when you shred his evidence I don't get hurt.
Last edited by Arach Angle; 01-04-2019 at 07:24 PM..
Well there's nothing about morality being objective that precludes it and god's nature being one and the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
No, but it does preclude god deciding what is and is not moral.
Exactly. So that means morality could be objective, god could be what Plato called "the good", and this wouldn't be the same as god arbitrarily making it up. The Euthyphro remains a false dilemma.
And you're still not pointing out anywhere that Craig is begging the question in his cosmological argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
Cosmologists. You know, the people who point out WLC's arguments are scientifically not sound.
Be specific. Which cosmologists, and what exactly are their objections? Because the only relevant premises are that the universe began to exist (which he's quoted cosmologists and physicists agreeing with him on) and that the fine-tuning is not due to necessity or chance (which he agrees with a number of scientists on as well).
Quote:
So WLC is saying IF the universe had a beginning? I seem to have missed that part.
Well he's saying (and supporting the premise) that the universe probably had a beginning. None of these premises are being claimed with certainty.
i said, if their was an all powerful, all knowing being, how in no-gods name would we know if what it was doing was the right thing to do or not?
Absolutely. And this is the problem anti-theists continue to run into. They want to just assert that such a god must be wrong (usually appealing to emotions rather than any sort of logical argument) and have us agree.
i said, if their was an all powerful, all knowing being, how in no-gods name would we know if what it was doing was the right thing to do or not?
i used the child example as a reference point to show the difference in it and us. Its actually more like we would be ants. If I had to kill 1/2 the ants on my lawn to stop overpopulation, dease, sickness, and slow horrible deaths in those ants and help as many as I could. them calling me 'evil" is meaningless.
that all I was saying. I was not minimizing it at all. i was being realistic.
yes, dying, waking up, and flying away for our sins is all i needed to hear. I knew they were wrong for as long as I could remember.
4 years ago? for some reason i thought you were older. I didn't know you weren't even out of teens yet. my bad. i would have cut you more slack.
And ultimately, the fact is....it really doesn't matter.
No one stops to think if the law of gravity is fair or not, and hops off a building, pretending that it doesn't exit. Don't like gravity? So what? You're subject to it.
Don't like God? Think God is wrong? Bad? Immoral? So what? You can blow as much smoke as you want and whine and pretend he doesn't exist, but ultimately he's in charge and he will judge sinners.
Good News is that for those that are in Christ, there is not condemnation.
I became atheist 4 years ago. This was after actually reading the Bible in full with the intent to defend it. Yet, this has not been my issue with your previous posts. You have been dismissing being attributed atrocities as if they were typical natural occurrences. You seem to want to justify an indifferent unknown god by defend Christians belief in an absurd god. Maybe I’m wrong.
I was thinking about what you asked "you are talking about a different god?'. hey, I heard that, I have vents in house for when I think. I said "if an all powerful thing was doing stuff we wouldn't know if what it was doing was right or not.". but, if it was doing that, we wouldn't see it doing some of the things in the bible either.
the loop hole in that thinking is that maybe, the most efficient way to get the job done is do what needs to be done by using human's as humans. Doing that means a certain amount of probabilistic (and problematic from out point of view) outcomes. Like men getting all worked up and abusing women.
i don't mean to normalize to horrific actions we see in thebiblegod. But at the same time, i don't know of one, not one, great good, or human rising to step up and be the best example of a human we have without and equally great evil.
some atheist say "I'll take a wait and see stance". I think i will take that stance here. maybe the snake is the hero in the creation story. I say "hero" because it has to suffer our distain, our hate, all of humanity's disgust. but it, and it alone, is responsible for 'saving us" because it gave us a choice.
i learn that from that wises of wise river fish.
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