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Old 04-27-2011, 08:39 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,212,693 times
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Short version: When guilty people got killed, they deserved it because they were guilty and bad... and when innocent people got killed, even when innocent babies were killed, they went to Heaven, and it was all hunky dory in the end.

Respected Theologian William Lane Craig Defends Genocide and Infanticide (http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/150742 - broken link)

...and Christians call atheists 'militant' when we speak up about this sort of crap. We're not the ones that justify bashing the heads of babies open on rocks, and we're not the ones justifying mass slaughter of defeated enemies.

It's crap like this, Christians, Jews and Muslims. This is why those of us you fallaciously label as 'militant atheists' speak out against you and your angry, hateful, murderous religions. This is why I became an anti-theist as well as an atheist. Call me 'militant' all you like, but let me tell you this: no words that I speak will ever kill someone. No phrase that I type will ever cause genocide.

Apologetically calling it "a different time" doesn't fly. If murder is wrong now, it was wrong then. If rape is wrong now, it was wrong then. If slavery is wrong now, it was wrong then. If genocide is wrong now, it was wrong then. If child-marriage is wrong now, it was wrong then. If pedophilia is wrong now, it was wrong then. If beating your wife is wrong now, it was wrong then.

If all of these things are wrong now, then the god in the bible was wrong to command them back then.
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:54 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,481,296 times
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I once had an Eastern Orthodox remark to me that burning heretics wasn't such a big deal,since they were going to burn in hell for all eternity anyways.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,593 posts, read 10,297,838 times
Reputation: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Apologetically calling it "a different time" doesn't fly. If murder is wrong now, it was wrong then. If rape is wrong now, it was wrong then. If slavery is wrong now, it was wrong then. If genocide is wrong now, it was wrong then. If child-marriage is wrong now, it was wrong then. If pedophilia is wrong now, it was wrong then. If beating your wife is wrong now, it was wrong then.

If all of these things are wrong now, then the god in the bible was wrong to command them back then.

first of all, the bible is probably not accurate about the fate of the canaanites. The Jews probably WERE canaanites, who differed religiously.

Secondly, IF you are going to accept the bible as history on this, then istm you have to buy some other biblical concepts - such as that G-d created the earth and all human beings. Which gives him different rights, maybe, in terms of killing his creation than we humans on our own have. Often when decry a murderer, we say "he was playing God" How can G-d play God? "The lord giveth, the lord taketh away" and all that. That is NOT the final answer to the problem of theodicy - but it does indicate that simply equating a divine action to a human one is banal and naive, to say the least.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,034,362 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Short version: When guilty people got killed, they deserved it because they were guilty and bad... and when innocent people got killed, even when innocent babies were killed, they went to Heaven, and it was all hunky dory in the end.

Respected Theologian William Lane Craig Defends Genocide and Infanticide (http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/150742 - broken link)

...and Christians call atheists 'militant' when we speak up about this sort of crap. We're not the ones that justify bashing the heads of babies open on rocks, and we're not the ones justifying mass slaughter of defeated enemies.

It's crap like this, Christians, Jews and Muslims. This is why those of us you fallaciously label as 'militant atheists' speak out against you and your angry, hateful, murderous religions. This is why I became an anti-theist as well as an atheist. Call me 'militant' all you like, but let me tell you this: no words that I speak will ever kill someone. No phrase that I type will ever cause genocide.

Apologetically calling it "a different time" doesn't fly. If murder is wrong now, it was wrong then. If rape is wrong now, it was wrong then. If slavery is wrong now, it was wrong then. If genocide is wrong now, it was wrong then. If child-marriage is wrong now, it was wrong then. If pedophilia is wrong now, it was wrong then. If beating your wife is wrong now, it was wrong then.

If all of these things are wrong now, then the god in the bible was wrong to command them back then.

How can you condemn a God you don't believe in? That makes no sense.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:15 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,212,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
How can you condemn a God you don't believe in? That makes no sense.
You missed the entire point, read the articles and try again.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,037 posts, read 30,676,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
How can you condemn a God you don't believe in? That makes no sense.
Nobody is condemning a non existent god.....We condemn the people who believe in and defend such a god...I think that is the point...Anybody who says killing babies and supports genocide deserves to be condemned.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:34 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,212,693 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Nobody is condemning a non existent god.....We condemn the people who believe in and defend such a god...I think that is the point...Anybody who says killing babies and supports genocide deserves to be condemned.
Exactly, and worse yet, WLC isn't considered to be one of the fringe wacko Christians, either.

This is mainstream christianity, people. This is what children are being taught is moral and just. These are the people who want to get creationism taught in our schools as science, who want the ten commandments displayed on public buildings, who want us to swear on the bible or say 'so help me god' when we are in court, who want to shut down Planned Parenthood even though only 3% of the business it does is abortions, who do not want sex education taught to our teens, who make "museums" promoting fairy tales as fact, and who condemn gays and lesbians.

It's sick, it's rotten, and it should not be accepted as normal or good in any way.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,034,362 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Nobody is condemning a non existent god.....We condemn the people who believe in and defend such a god...I think that is the point...Anybody who says killing babies and supports genocide deserves to be condemned.

How many believers here on these boards say killing babies is alright or supports genocide? None. You're condeming us for things we did not, and would not, do?

Gee. I guess it doesn't take much to generate hatred, does it? Guilt by association!
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,694,959 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
How many believers here on these boards say killing babies is alright or supports genocide? None. You're condeming us for things we did not, and would not, do?

Gee. I guess it doesn't take much to generate hatred, does it? Guilt by association!
You follow the bible and support and worship a god that does these things. So if these things are not ok, how can you support this god.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:33 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,212,693 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
How many believers here on these boards say killing babies is alright or supports genocide? None. You're condeming us for things we did not, and would not, do?

Gee. I guess it doesn't take much to generate hatred, does it? Guilt by association!
How many 'good christian people' here are speaking out against it? Your silence is deafening. If christians don't agree with what he is saying, there should be a concerted effort by christians to remove him from whatever position he has, and to discredit him for hate speech.

I don't see that happening. Christianity claims to hold the moral high ground, and points fingers at atheists as if we're the bad, evil, depraved ones. Why then are we the ones pointing out your hypocritical feet of clay? Why then, are you leaving it to us to fight against religious hate-speech? This mess belongs to christianity, but they're not taking care of it.
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