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Imagine that archaeologists are dispatched at some point in time to try to find proof of the existence of a man that lived thousands of years before.
The archaeologists find, all over the world, hundreds of millions of copies of a book that is published for thousands of years, of which this person is one of the central subjects, and it contains detailed accounts of his life, and even his death.
They find, all over the world, hundreds of thousands of shrines and large buildings built in his honor.
They also find absolute evidence that the most common philosophy and religion that exists in the world was built around this very person...and that the philosophy/religion then dominated for thousands of years after his reported death.
Would they then say, "Sorry...we couldn't find any evidence"?!
Well, Jesus IS:
1. The focal person of the #1 book in the history of the world.
2. Has had tens (hundreds?) of thousands of churches and shrines built in His honor.
3. Is the personal catalyst of the worlds #1 most common philosophy, and the most prolific religion.
Other things and people...that have a relatively infinitesimal amount of proof of existence...are fully acknowledged and confirmed.
Still, some would actually ask, "Where is the proof?"...when you say "Jesus existed". Yet when showed the evidence of the Bible, the structures built in His honor, the movement created by His influence...they say, "none of that counts".
Whaaaaaaat?!!!
If that doesn't count...what else would?! What other proof would there be of any person that lived thousands of years ago...short of mummified remains?
I submit...there is more proof for the existence of Jesus than any ancient figure besides the Egyptian rulers the pyramids were built for.
The Qu'ran, the Christian New Testament, Josephus the Historian.
just off the top of my head.
Oh please. You'll have to do better than that. You are new here so it might be a good idea if you went through some of the many 'Existence of Jesus' threads. Your sources have been thoroughly debunked many times over.
The Qur'an:
If you are going to accept the Qur'an as evidence of your Jesus, you need to be consistent and accept that the Qur'an is true when it says that Allah is the only true god.
The New Testament:
Self-serving books written by fellow believers. Proven to be contradictory and unreliable and written by anonymous authors who never even met your man-god.
Josephus:
Proven beyond reasonable doubt to be a later Christian forgery and accepted as such by scholars on both sides of the argument. Perpetrated by the celebrated Christian forger Eusebius in the second century.
I submit...there is more proof for the existence of Jesus than any ancient figure besides the Egyptian rulers the pyramids were built for.
There is no proof that any Jesus existed. None of what you posted proves the existence of your Jesus. All your scenario does is prove that people believed someone called Jesus existed.
Quote:
Imagine that archaeologists are dispatched at some point in time to try to find proof of the existence of a man that lived thousands of years before.
The archaeologists find, all over the world, hundreds of millions of copies of a book that is published for thousands of years, of which this person is one of the central subjects, and it contains detailed accounts of his life, and even his death.
You mean like the Qur'an or the Gitas of Hinduism?
Quote:
They find, all over the world, hundreds of thousands of shrines and large buildings built in his honor.
Like those that exist for The Buddha or Brahma or Krishna?
Quote:
Well, Jesus IS:
1. The focal person of the #1 book in the history of the world.
2. Has had tens (hundreds?) of thousands of churches and shrines built in His honor.
3. Is the personal catalyst of the worlds #1 most common philosophy, and the most prolific religion.
Yet another one of your appeals to authority dude? Epic fail.
Quote:
Yet when showed the evidence of the Bible, the structures built in His honor, the movement created by His influence...they say, "none of that counts".
It doesn't count with regard to proving the existence of Jesus...any more than the literature, structures or movements of Islam/Hinduism can be used for the existence of Allah and Brahma.
So, using your arguments for believing Jesus existed, why don't you tell us why you don't believe in the gods of ancient Egypt? After all we have mountains of literature, shrines and artefacts relating to them.
Why don't you believe in the existence of all the gods of ancient Rome? We have a dearth of temples and shrines to prove that they existed.... huh?
Your argumentum ad populum fails miserably dude, as it has failed every time you have used it but you don't seem to get it do you?
Look at this way. People built beliefs around Osiris, built temples in his honour, wrote much about him and he had a huge following of believers. Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Osiris existed.
People built temples to Hercules and wrote much about him. He too had a huge following of adherents. Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Hercules existed.
People built temples to Krishna, wrote much about him and huge numbers of followers believe in his existence. Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Krishna existed.
It's very simple concept Gldnrain. Let me explain it to you.
People BELIEVED/BELIEVE Jesus existed. Just like YOU do. So what fella?
People believe all sorts of things.
Why write about Krishna and build temples to him if he didn't exist?
Why write about Osiris and build temples to him if he didn't exist?
Why write about Odysseus and build temples to him if he didn't exist?
See dude? People DO believe in religious myths. People DO write about religious myths and people DO build temples to religious myths.
It proves nothing - other than that people believe, write about and build temples to mythical characters.
There is no proof that any Jesus existed. None of what you posted proves the existence of your Jesus. All your scenario does is prove that people believed someone called Jesus existed.
You mean like the Qur'an or the Gitas of Hinduism?
Like those that exist for The Buddha or Brahma or Krishna?
Yet another one of your appeals to authority dude? Epic fail.
It doesn't count with regard to proving the existence of Jesus...any more than the literature, structures or movements of Islam/Hinduism can be used for the existence of Allah and Brahma.
So, using your arguments for believing Jesus existed, why don't you tell us why you don't believe in the gods of ancient Egypt? After all we have mountains of literature, shrines and artefacts relating to them.
Why don't you believe in the existence of all the gods of ancient Rome? We have a dearth of temples and shrines to prove that they existed.... huh?
Your argumentum ad populum fails miserably dude, as it has failed every time you have used it but you don't seem to get it do you?
Look at this way. People built beliefs around Osiris, built temples in his honour, wrote much about him and he had a huge following of believers. Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Osiris existed.
People built temples to Hercules and wrote much about him. He too had a huge following of adherents. Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Hercules existed.
People built temples to Krishna, wrote much about him and huge numbers of followers believe in his existence. Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Krishna existed.
It's very simple concept Gldnrain. Let me explain it to you.
People BELIEVED/BELIEVE Jesus existed. Just like YOU do. So what fella?
People believe all sorts of things.
Why write about Krishna and build temples to him if he didn't exist?
Why write about Osiris and build temples to him if he didn't exist?
Why write about Odysseus and build temples to him if he didn't exist?
See dude? People DO believe in religious myths. People DO write about religious myths and people DO build temples to religious myths.
It proves nothing - other than that people believe, write about and build temples to mythical characters.
Got it?
Repost of one of my offerings from a year ago, with a couple of tweaks....surprised you didn't remember.
Work is uneventful, boring, and the "rap" music these girls love is driving me even more crazy than it usually does tonight.
How much time did you just put in on this ^^^ post?
Pull the hook from my favorite Ad pop lure (you guys are sooooooo predictable) out of your cheek and I'll toss you back in Raf!
How can you not be "on to" these 2-4AM EST posts of mine by now Dude?!
Anyway...thanks for the smile you put on my face...I appreciate it.
I can BELIEVE a Jesus existed, around whom a legend grew in an ancient world without all the checks and balances we have today. That legend, through a little persistence, good fortune and luck has survived this far.
Now, do I have ANY concrete proof Jesus existed? Nope. I just find it unlikely he could just have been invented and created out of thin air. It just seems more likely that some Jewish sage with an new twist on Jewish religion appealed to the poor masses, infuriated the religious big wigs, was strung up as a heretic, rebel and revolutionary and that was the end of the PHYSICAL Jesus. Of course, as in many other cases, this did not set well with his followers and grief turned to memory, memory into commemoration and commemoration into wild legends and legend into "fact" which just so happened to have been picked up by the world's greatest empire of the time, an empire which gave birth to independent nations that went on to control a good chunk of the world and pass on their particular flavor of this Jesus myth to the conquered.
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Epic fail.
