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Old 05-06-2011, 01:44 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,351,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I have literally said all I have to say on the subject.
I thought so. And since you have not given any argument, data, evidence or reasons to think there is a god... my assumption that you have no argument, data, evidence or reasons to think there is a god is correct. Thanks for your time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I've already said the proof you want DOES NOT exist
I never used the word proof. You did. I asked for any evidence, arguments, data or reasons to show there is a god at all. You provided none. Thanks for your time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
the scientific reasons behind why many astrophysicists and scientists believe the driving force of the universe is God, we can talk about that.
Duh, that is what I have been asking for. Reasons why you think there might be a god. So... proceed... I am all ears.... I have been asking for reasons to believe there is a god over and over, and now here act like you have only just realised that might be what I would like to do? Wow. Just... wow.

Pick one, run with it and we can discuss it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
If you are going to insist that God should be the thing you want him to be, show Himself in the way you want Him to, and do all the things you think He should be doing, WE'VE ALREADY AGREED that type of God probably does NOT exist.
I never insisted on any such thing. I asked you for ANY evidence, argument, data or reasons to think there is a god at all so that we can discuss them and see if they are valid. I am not in ANY WAY saying what that evidence can or can not be. That is up to you. You pick something... adumbrate it... and I will discuss whether I think it valid or invalid... and more importantly WHY I think so.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:50 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 4,325,634 times
Reputation: 2405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I thought so. And since you have not given any argument, data, evidence or reasons to think there is a god... my assumption that you have no argument, data, evidence or reasons to think there is a god is correct. Thanks for your time.
lol you can say that I didn't provide evidence until the cows come home but I did. I even recapped the evidence in the last couple of pages, in my last post to you even. You edited it out in your response to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I never insisted on any such thing. I asked you for ANY evidence, argument, data or reasons to think there is a god at all so that we can discuss them and see if they are valid. I am not in ANY WAY saying what that evidence can or can not be. That is up to you. You pick something... adumbrate it... and I will discuss whether I think it valid or invalid... and more importantly WHY I think so.
No, that's not what you've been asking for. You've been asking for proof on EARTH that proves the evidence of God. What I'm talking about is the evidence that God may be the driving force behind the Big Bang/Multiverses.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:53 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,351,541 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
lol you can say that I didn't provide evidence until the cows come home but I did. I even recapped the evidence in the last couple of pages.
See what I mean? You claim you give evidence when you do not. In the last post you even said if I want to discuss the scientific reasons some people think there is a god we can.... I said "sure lets do that".... and look. Nothing. Nothing at all. You said we could, and straight away in your next post you dont do it. Its cop out after cop out. Dodge after dodge from you.

You keep saying you have given evidence. In the last post you said if I want some you will give it. Yet constantly you just do not give it. Any at all. Zilch. Nadda. Nichts. Nothing. Feck all. It simply is not there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
No, that's not what you've been asking for. You've been asking for proof on EARTH that proves the evidence of God.
Now you are just lying. Outright lying. I never said those words at all. Quote me. I never even used the word earth once for example. I am not limiting your evidence in any way, I am simply asking you to present it so I can discuss its validity/invalidity. As such it can be whatever you care to say you think it is.

I repeat what I have been asking yet again: Have you any argument... data.... evidence... or reasons... to lend credence to the notion there is a god?
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:55 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 4,325,634 times
Reputation: 2405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
See what I mean? You claim you give evidence when you do not. In the last post you even said if I want to discuss the scientific reasons some people think there is a god we can.... I said "sure lets do that".... and look. Nothing. Nothing at all. You said we could, and straight away in your next post you dont do it. Its cop out after cop out. Dodge after dodge from you.

You keep saying you have given evidence. In the last post you said if I want some you will give it. Yet constantly you just do not give it. Any at all. Zilch. Nadda. Nichts. Nothing. Feck all. It simply is not there.
Check my second sentence is post #257, in response to YOU.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:57 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,351,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
Check my second sentence is post #257, in response to YOU.
Which appears to be....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I've already said the proof you want DOES NOT exist, I cannot make God show up in your living room. I think the only "God" you would deem worthy of worship does not exist.
Where is the evidence, argument, data or reasons to think there is a god in there? As I said: It simply is not there.

YOU said.. not me... that if I want to discuss the scientific evidence there is a god we can do so. I have said I want to do so. It appears now you are going back on your word and NOT doing so. Lie much? Dishonest often? Backtrack frequently?

then again that is the second paragraph not the second sentence. The second sentence is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
If the testimony of billions of people across time and culture with some pretty significant similarities does not impress you, then nothing will.
And I have already explained the problem with that. Testimony and anecdote is not evidence in and of itself. It is merely an indication of what claims are worth looking into. There are billions of people all testifying to things and we have no way to accept one testimony and reject another UNLESS WE LOOK FURTHER INTO BOTH CLAIMS. I am looking further into the claims and what are you giving me?

Nothing. Literally.

I am rather stand offish on this subject but with good reason. I am simply tired of being lied to. I am tired of people saying over and over there is evidence there… and then resisting EVERY SINGLE attempt to get them to say what it is.

The excuses vary of course. The person doesn’t have the time. The person thinks I am biased and so they will not give the evidence because I will just refuse to accept it anyway. The person thinks that I will not be able to understand the evidence so why bother. The person thinks I should find the evidence for myself.

Blah…. Blah blah. The reasons change but the effect is the same…. The person is saying there is evidence there but is just making excuses for why they will not be giving it. And what do I personally think is the reason for this?

Because they have no more idea what the evidence is than I do. Plain and simple. They are simply lying to me and I am not about to stand buy and not point that fact out. So now when I see people… like you… telling that outright lie… I am going to call foul. Each… and every… time.

It is not personal against you. You are just giving me a platform with your dishonesty. My agenda is to let people see your dishonesty. I want people to see that each and every time a theist says the evidence is there… that they then immediately go on to cop out and refuse to give any of it… hiding behind any excuse they can in order to do so.

And every time you do so it serves my ends perfectly. So thanks. When you say in one post that we can discuss the science evidence for god... then in the next post after I said to do so you simply do not do it... this plays my game. It helps me show the world the lies you and those like you tell. Again: thanks.

Last edited by Nozzferrahhtoo; 05-06-2011 at 02:11 AM..
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,566,456 times
Reputation: 11083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
Check my second sentence is post #257, in response to YOU.
He's incapable of understanding your evidence, Violett. Being neutral, I can see both sides. For people who believe, no proof is necessary. For people who disbelieve, no proof will ever be enough.

Luckily, I ride the fence.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:32 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,700,757 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I've already answered this question upthread which is why I did not respond to the subsequent times that you've asked it.
Post number, please.

Quote:
There is no contradiction. I agree that the God atheists want to exist, the magical concierge that will do whatever you want when you snap your fingertips, most likely does not exist. He's God, not a genie in lamp.
Then what should we be looking for? Please be specific.

There's a huge difference between expecting something to grant wishes and wanting it to be real before believing in it. I believe frogs are real, and I accept them as they are instead of hoping that they would give me infinite riches if I catch one. I don't believe in them because they live up to my fantasy about what they should be - I believe in them because I have valid objective evidence that they're real. I'm willing to do the same for god - so your excuses that we're making this more difficult that it has to be are pretty transparent.

This also highlights that you are confusing "believe in" with "think they're worth worshiping". Just because the concept of god you've put forth doesn't seem to be worthy of worship doesn't mean that we won't believe it exists. They're two different questions entirely. Stop trying to confuse them.

And I can't help but notice you can't back up your claims that atheists haven't sincerely looked for gods. Why is that?

Last edited by KCfromNC; 05-06-2011 at 06:46 AM..
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,566,456 times
Reputation: 11083
Because she's not an atheist, and has found God. So, if you haven't found God--to her way of thinking--then you haven't looked hard enough.

Impartial party here. I don't know if God does or doesn't exist. I won't make a claim either way.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:41 AM
 
Location: USA
17,156 posts, read 11,339,995 times
Reputation: 2376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Ah yes, of course! It's not to be taken 'literally'.
Tell me, just how do you guys go through your Bible and decide what is literal and what isn't, what is true and what is metaphor, what should be believed and what shouldn't? How do you decide that, for example, the story of Adam and Eve should not be taken literally but the story of the crucifixion should?
Since I'm not a Christian, I find it pretty easy. I read it all as being written by people who were trying to make sense of things like anyone else. Whether they believed the stories they wrote or not, I can still find things of worth to take away from it that are uplifting and inspiring and, shoot, might even be onto something about the whole god thing. If I read something that doesn't make any good sense to me no matter how I look at it, I ignore it. Like I said, pretty easy.

Is there a God? I highly doubt it. But I can still appreciate what violett is saying ... stop looking for the childish "magical" god I was taught about as a child and start looking at the bible and other spiritual books and the whole concept of "God" through adult eyes.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:47 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,700,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
For people who believe, no proof is necessary. For people who disbelieve, no proof will ever be enough.
You mean, for people who disbelieve there's not sufficient proof yet.
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