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Old 05-11-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,189,343 times
Reputation: 1798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
But, if I ask for forgiveness and am sincere in my repentance, I get in. No?

However, if I have nothing to ask forgiveness for, but simply don't believe Jesus is our savior, I don't get in. On the face of it, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Does it?
This is pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

Say you get a door-door snakeoilsalesman and you "accept" the jesus and do the ritual of the sinner's prayer but then refuse to go to or attend any church or interaction with other believers, they will still say you are not saved.

It is a tribal thing that you HAVE to belong to "their" tribe.

99% of evangelists have NEVER read the bible cover to cover or studied it looking at all arguments otherwise they would not be pestering you.

 
Old 05-11-2011, 12:16 PM
 
7,052 posts, read 12,269,724 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee9786 View Post

YouTube - Did Jesus Exist? 1 of 4

The evidence is there. You just need to look.
If there was actual evidence of Jesus' existence, faith would not be a requirement for Christianity.
 
Old 05-11-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,884,517 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavemaster View Post
According to the Universal Redemption type Christians, you are not, because Christ's sacrifice on the cross redeemed all mankind for all time. According to the fundies, you absolutely are because, per John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me (i.e. explicit belief in Jesus)."
Okay...the fundies say that non-believers will go to hell, but the Universal Redemption-types, on the other hand, are admitting that nobody is going to hell, since, y'know, Christ redeemed everyone for eternity.

If all mankind was redeemed for eternity, then that means that non-believers can't go to hell. All mankind has been redeemed, forever.

From which we can logically infer that, because we've been redeemed for all eternity, the fundies' entire 'believe-or-burn' viewpoint is invalid. It's literally impossible for a soul to be sent to hell, because that would be defying the divine mandate set out by Christ's sacrifice.

Hmm.
 
Old 05-11-2011, 03:49 PM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,945,316 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
Whodathunkit? For once Campbell, you've said something I don't completely disagree with.

According to the stories, it should have happened nearly 2,000 years ago...so everyone crowing about 'return' is SOL. Either it already happened and they've missed the boat (pun intended), or this minor historical figure who gave the appearance of being little more than a psychotic revolutionary was a trumped up fraud that died and turned to dust like everyone else and is never coming back.

Either way, those sitting around looking at their watches are in for a rude surprise.



Either way you got it wrong. When Jesus told us to learn the parable of the fig tree. Most continue to ignore His statement. The generation that saw the fig tree shoot forth it's branches would be those who would not pass away. The fig tree is Israel. And the generation that saw Israel reborn as a nation was the generation that was born in the year 1948. Jesus was speaking of the prophecy found in the Old Testament. Ezekiel 36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. This prophecy only occured in the year 1948. And in fact, the prophecies found in Ezekiel chapters 36,37,38, and 39 all deal with the existance of Israel in the latter years. And not during Christ generation.
 
Old 05-11-2011, 04:02 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 5,204,490 times
Reputation: 7012
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayCoolJr View Post
I'll give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. Below is why every Christian society has been WIPED OUT 350 years ago eventhough almost half the world was once Christian societies.

They murdered, raped, tortured, etc. and committed the most gross human rights violations you can imagine!!

EVIL scripture like the words below is why every Christian society has been destroyed and the word "jesus" or "christ" will NEVER appear in the founding or constitutional documents of ANY western nation!!

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
And to think, they oppose the death penalty and a woman's right to choose because it's murder. Go figure the logic behind that!

I think i'll just remain Pagan.
 
Old 05-11-2011, 04:03 PM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,945,316 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
Okay...the fundies say that non-believers will go to hell, but the Universal Redemption-types, on the other hand, are admitting that nobody is going to hell, since, y'know, Christ redeemed everyone for eternity.

If all mankind was redeemed for eternity, then that means that non-believers can't go to hell. All mankind has been redeemed, forever.

From which we can logically infer that, because we've been redeemed for all eternity, the fundies' entire 'believe-or-burn' viewpoint is invalid. It's literally impossible for a soul to be sent to hell, because that would be defying the divine mandate set out by Christ's sacrifice.

Hmm.





It would not defy God's mandate. Because in that mandate it clearly states that only those (WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS WILL BE SAVED). Suggesting that we are all saved, requires you to ignore what is clearly stated.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only son (THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL BE SAVED).

Matthew 7:21,22
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Scripture tells you outright, that not everyone is going to heaven.
 
Old 05-11-2011, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,133,530 times
Reputation: 6958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Either way you got it wrong. When Jesus told us to learn the parable of the fig tree. Most continue to ignore His statement. The generation that saw the fig tree shoot forth it's branches would be those who would not pass away. The fig tree is Israel. And the generation that saw Israel reborn as a nation was the generation that was born in the year 1948. Jesus was speaking of the prophecy found in the Old Testament. Ezekiel 36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. This prophecy only occured in the year 1948. And in fact, the prophecies found in Ezekiel chapters 36,37,38, and 39 all deal with the existance of Israel in the latter years. And not during Christ generation.
Not all people have the time or interest to solve dumb riddles. Things would be much easier if biblical works were written accurately and concisely without any metaphors and other nonsense. Unless the bible wants to compete with the newspaper's comic and puzzle section.
 
Old 05-11-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: home
1,040 posts, read 1,326,685 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Yeah! But I want it where I'm going not where you are.


...and are you going to give us a clue about what you're predicting?
Rafius. Euronews is reporting that a pair of earthquakes have rocked southern Spain. First, 5.3 second 4.4. A church bell came crashing down.
It saddens me that so many lack faith.Moderator cut: delete

Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-12-2011 at 05:50 AM.. Reason: stop referring yourself as God if you want to stay a member
 
Old 05-11-2011, 04:55 PM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,945,316 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Not all people have the time or interest to solve dumb riddles. Things would be much easier if biblical works were written accurately and concisely without any metaphors and other nonsense. Unless the bible wants to compete with the newspaper's comic and puzzle section.


That is why Jesus told us to search the Scriptures for it's truth. Those who do not seek the truth, are those who are not interested in the truth. And they will look at the only Book that can show them how to secure eternal life. And compare it to a newspaper comic.
 
Old 05-11-2011, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,884,517 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
It would not defy God's mandate. Because in that mandate it clearly states that only those (WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS WILL BE SAVED). Suggesting that we are all saved, requires you to ignore what is clearly stated.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only son (THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL BE SAVED).
(emphasis added)

From 1 Timothy 2:2, v. 4-6 King James ver.:


Quote:
3
Quote:
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
(emphasis added)

Note the bolded words: 'all men' and 'for all'. It doesn't mention Christ's followers by name, nor does it say 'all who believeth in him' -- it says 'all men'.

Again, in 1 Timothy 4, verse 10, King James version:

Quote:
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
(emphasis added)

That verse quite clearly and explicitly states that God is the savior of 'all men' (again, not simply the 'elect' or 'those that believe'), whether or not they believe. Those that believe in him are, however, accorded a particular focus of his attentions.
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