Homosexuality/bisexuality and religion (Lord, gays, testimony, morality)

[antredd]

Originally Posted by MacAttack_

The 1 Corinthians 6:19 verse you cite is a mistranslation:

In the New Testament, the two verses 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 1 Timothy 1:10 are often mistranslated as condemning homosexuality in English Bibles (but not in the Roman Latin Vulgate Bible or the 1545 German Bible of Martin Luther). Mistranslation is based on two ancient Greek words "malakoi" & "arsenokoitai" (Greek letters "ARSENOKOITAI " literally, "male-beds"), which was a new word used by Paul (Saul) at the time and not a common term for homo-sexuality. Because Paul was speaking in a religious context, the word "arsenokoitai" has been translated as referring to male-pimps or customers in temple prostitution, a common practice in so-called pagan rituals widespread in Temple Cult worship of the time. [The minor term "malakoi" (used to describe "soft" clothing) is non-sexual and has been translated as "effeminate" (KJV), although others state "weaklings" or "morally weak, lazy" men.]

The ancient Greek word "arsenokoitai" occurs in only those 2 verses, 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 1 Timothy 1:10. Logically, if homosexuality were considered a sin, there should be many verses about it, and the word "arsenokoitai" would occur more than twice if it had referred to a major issue, such as homosexuality; the rarity of the word fits the logical translation: the word "arsenokoitai" refers to the rare practice of temple prostitution, not general homosexuality. (See: 73 references to arsenokoit* found in TLG E Feb/2000, "http://www.jeramyt.org/gay/arsenok.htm".) Yet, precisely because the word is so rare and had no formal definition, the word "arsenokoitai" is crucial in fostering misinterpretation of the Bible: a more common word could not be so easily redefined.

The verses in the Bible follow certain priorities: for example, the words "adultery" or "adulteress/adulterer" (Greek "moixoi" ) occur 47 times in the King James Version; however, the word "arsenokoitai" occurs only 2 times, and the common terms of that time period about homosexual activity are not mentioned in the Bible at all (such as man-boy pairing, Greek "erastes-eromenos"). Condemning homosexuality in Biblical times was not an issue, not a priority, at all.

Mac you make a very valid point, and I am not going to argue with you about the word homosexual being placed in the English bible BY SCRIBES to stress committing A HOMOSEXUAL act goes against God's commandments. But the word FORNICATION IS USED IN THE BIBLE, and my argument stands with God on this one. Anyone who engages in any type of sex outside of a heterosexual marriage is committing FORNICATION---period. A christian OR NON CHRISTIAN who tries to justify FORNICATION , be it through gay or lesbian sex, sex with an animal, or straight sex with the person that her or she hasn't married, is still WRONG. That is not my opinion, I am not leaning to MY own understanding in regard to this sin. My point was simply that if you are not BORN AGAIN, THEN YOU CAN'T INHERIT GOD'S KINGDOM NOR ENTER IT if any of us engage in any type of habitual sin and think that we get a pass from God because we are law abiding people, attend church regularly, and read the bible. Scriptures are very clear, and you can't get around it. God bless and it's my hope and prayer that we [AS CHRISTIANS] pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a PURE HEART. But avoid folish and ignorant disputes, know that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility CORRECTING those who are in OPPOSITION, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they MAY KNOW THE TRUTH. 2Timothy 2:22-25 NKJV

[MARK1966]

Hello Everyone, My name is Mark and I live in London, England and I also have a home in Orlando, Florida. Having spent time in both countries it is alarming how different the mentality is in each. I am a gay man of 40 and I am legally Civil Partnered as this became legal in December 2005. My partner is a Major in the British Army and he has fought in many warzones for his country. We live in London and so it could be argued that as there is a large gay population here that we live with a false sense of security as I am sure that homophobia still exists in the country although I have never come across this in my 41 years. On the whole I think that the UK is much more tolerent and that the equality laws have made it acceptable and safer to be gay. I spend a lot of time in the USA and I find it frightening how much power is given to the religeous. I was amazed and disgusted when on a recent visit to my Florida home I read in the local newspaper that a display in a local library in the gay and lesbian section had to be removed as someone had complained. Do gay people not pay taxes and contribute to society? It appears that the voice of so called 'Bible Bashers' is the loudest and their opinions guide the law makers. I am a believer although I don't attend church every week nor do I force my beliefs down other peoples throats. I live my life normally, by the law, and I contribute to society by my actions and through my taxes. Why can't the religeous just live their lives how they want to live and let others do the same. This will then allow the USA to move into line with western thinking instead of staying in a time warp. Laws can then be made to protect the minority groups and in time we will all live together and be tolerent. As Desmond Tutu said 'God made us different so that we may learn from one another" I for one agree. We must remember that it is in the name of religion that most wars are fought and if we all lived our lives with tolerence then all our lives would be richer for it.

[jabogitlu]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

You're right, for the most part, which is why I personally (and many others who support gay marriage) have no problem with those either... if you want to marry your sister, or have 3 wives, who cares?? I certainly don't! Of course I think incest is gross, but I don't let my personal "ickiness" get in the way of my logical/legal thoughts. Only difference with that particular one is the concern of birth defects, which you can't claim is a problem in gay relationships. And you couldn't even compare that to STD risks, since those only hurt the adults - not an innocent future child. But aside from that, marry all the (adult) relatives you want if that's your thing!

You're right, with one point to be made - the same point that is and can be made for gay marriage:

Legally sanctioning, or legally prohibiting, incestuous marriage isn't going to change what actually happens. Brother/sister, aunt/nephew, etc. who are determined to be together will be together. Wouldn't it be better to legalize their union to help them (and their children, if any) financially, medically, emotionally?

[antredd]

Originally Posted by MacAttack_

The 1 Corinthians 6:19 verse you cite is a mistranslation:

In the New Testament, the two verses 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 1 Timothy 1:10 are often mistranslated as condemning homosexuality in English Bibles (but not in the Roman Latin Vulgate Bible or the 1545 German Bible of Martin Luther). Mistranslation is based on two ancient Greek words "malakoi" & "arsenokoitai" (Greek letters "ARSENOKOITAI " literally, "male-beds"), which was a new word used by Paul (Saul) at the time and not a common term for homo-sexuality. Because Paul was speaking in a religious context, the word "arsenokoitai" has been translated as referring to male-pimps or customers in temple prostitution, a common practice in so-called pagan rituals widespread in Temple Cult worship of the time. [The minor term "malakoi" (used to describe "soft" clothing) is non-sexual and has been translated as "effeminate" (KJV), although others state "weaklings" or "morally weak, lazy" men.]

The ancient Greek word "arsenokoitai" occurs in only those 2 verses, 1 Corinthians 6:9 & 1 Timothy 1:10. Logically, if homosexuality were considered a sin, there should be many verses about it, and the word "arsenokoitai" would occur more than twice if it had referred to a major issue, such as homosexuality; the rarity of the word fits the logical translation: the word "arsenokoitai" refers to the rare practice of temple prostitution, not general homosexuality. (See: 73 references to arsenokoit* found in TLG E Feb/2000, "http://www.jeramyt.org/gay/arsenok.htm".) Yet, precisely because the word is so rare and had no formal definition, the word "arsenokoitai" is crucial in fostering misinterpretation of the Bible: a more common word could not be so easily redefined.

The verses in the Bible follow certain priorities: for example, the words "adultery" or "adulteress/adulterer" (Greek "moixoi" ) occur 47 times in the King James Version; however, the word "arsenokoitai" occurs only 2 times, and the common terms of that time period about homosexual activity are not mentioned in the Bible at all (such as man-boy pairing, Greek "erastes-eromenos"). Condemning homosexuality in Biblical times was not an issue, not a priority, at all.

It's interesting that the original Greek or Hebrew translations have no word for homosexuality. But because there was no word for homosexual in the original Greek or Hebrew like there is today doesn't make it moral. Again, the bible says flee sexual immorality---two men having sex outside of a heterosexual married, that is clearly set as an example in the bible, is fornication.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by antredd

Mac you make a very valid point, and I am not going to argue with you about the word homosexual being placed in the English bible BY SCRIBES to stress committing A HOMOSEXUAL act goes against God's commandments. But the word FORNICATION IS USED IN THE BIBLE, and my argument stands with God on this one. Anyone who engages in any type of sex outside of a heterosexual marriage is committing FORNICATION---period. A christian OR NON CHRISTIAN who tries to justify FORNICATION , be it through gay or lesbian sex, sex with an animal, or straight sex with the person that her or she hasn't married, is still WRONG. That is not my opinion, I am not leaning to MY own understanding in regard to this sin. My point was simply that if you are not BORN AGAIN, THEN YOU CAN'T INHERIT GOD'S KINGDOM NOR ENTER IT if any of us engage in any type of habitual sin and think that we get a pass from God because we are law abiding people, attend church regularly, and read the bible. Scriptures are very clear, and you can't get around it. God bless and it's my hope and prayer that we [AS CHRISTIANS] pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a PURE HEART. But avoid folish and ignorant disputes, know that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility CORRECTING those who are in OPPOSITION, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they MAY KNOW THE TRUTH. 2Timothy 2:22-25 NKJV

Yikes, bolded text! That always cracks me up when people raise their voice online. Bow down oh yea of weak morals!!

Anyone know why there are like 5 homosexual threads going on?

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by magellan

Yikes, bolded text! That always cracks me up when people raise their voice online. Bow down oh yea of weak morals!!

Anyone know why there are like 5 homosexual threads going on?

Always a hot topic.

[antredd]

Originally Posted by magellan

Yikes, bolded text! That always cracks me up when people raise their voice online. Bow down oh yea of weak morals!!

Anyone know why there are like 5 homosexual threads going on?

There are plenty on here which makes it a very interesting discussion. As for me using bold text, it was strictly for emphasis, I never yell at anyone in this forum.

[yhwhshalomjr]

Thanks Hoosierguy for your transparency! You only prove God to be the Powerful
Master that can do anything but fail. I agree that this is a lifestyle, but I'm no scholar on it. God Bless your ministry...
I was really impressed with Minister/Psalmist Donnie McClurkin and his testimony
of being delivered from his homosexual lifestyle.

[yhwhshalomjr]

I'm sure there are millions that have thought about performing homo/bi-sexuality
without actually committing the act. But this is not what I intended to focus on
technically speaking it's the same as "adultery" a lifestyle... anyone who looks
upon a woman lustfully, has already committed adultery in his heart" Bible.
The word homosexuality I haven't seen in the Bible but it does have a bit to
say about men who " Lie down with another man" beast etc., prostitution all
of it is a lifestyle.I don't believe that anyone was born this way. But was exposed
whether it was as a young age or adulthood. But I'm outta here!! This is much too
deep for me. I'll just give the glory and props to the Lord who can do anything.
Nothing is impossible to those that believe" and certainly All things are possible
with God....

[FireballFL]

Originally Posted by boycew02

Hiya folks,

A recent comment by someone on this forum (I can't remember who the person was or which thread it was in) got me thinking. Obviously the majority of people who post in this section of the forum are religious and I was just wondering what are your views on homosexuality and bisexuality? Do you see it as a sin or do you believe that it is okay?

I'll be interested to see what people's opinions are.

boycew02

This is going to become a rhetorical question and everyone is going to answer and then everyone is going to argue about their points of view and then everyone is going to get nowhere in this debate. I opt to stay out, but if anyone reads my profile, then the answer should be relatively self-evident.