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The thing is we really don't know if people are born that way.
According to all reputable medical associations and the millions of gays in this world who have known they were gay since a very young age, I'd say the evidence is already more than sufficient to show that sexual orientation is primarily determined long before you ever have the ability to change it. Which is essentially being born that way.
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Yes I'm going to get screaming on that, but the studies only indicate homosexuality influences how people respond to certain stimuli and that it's often set at an early age. It most likely has a genetic or in-uterine factor, but I don't think determinism is proven on the matter. It could be solely "born that way" or it could be a combination of genetic predisposition coupled with early environmental factors. Unless something drastic has changed in the last couple years and I've tried to keep up with science sites.
Well, I think the mere fact that scientific studies have shown that gay brains are physically different than straight brains indicates it's biological. But once again, even if all the elements of orientation do not come into play until after being physically born, the overwhelming majority of gay people never had the opportunity to change their orientation. It doesn't matter if 100% of orientation is determined in pre-natal development, or if some percentage develops in early childhood. It still doesn't make it changeable or a choice. I consider myself bisexual, but I knew I was different as early as 3 years old. My thoughts, emotions, actions, etc. were all different than my peers. My parents took me to a psychologist when I was 5 because they thought I was gay. I can 100% guarantee you, I never chose my orientation, and my entire life has been a living hell trying to get God to change it.
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Then on other aspects of the spectrum it's more uncertain. Pop-singer Leslie Gore (It's My Party, etc) says she didn't know she was lesbian until her 20s.
Women tend to be more fluid when it comes to sexuality. Bisexuality also seems to be more common among women, while gay is more common among men. We also don't know what type of role society/stigma played in her suppressing her orientation, even if subconciously.
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On a different matter, Hollywood notions aside, people do have some choice in love and sexual partners. A gay man can decide a certain guy, even if he loves him, is no good for him. Or a straight woman can decide she'd rather focus on her career and put off serious relationships for awhile. Or, in olden days, forever as it was sometimes easier for a "spinster" to be a career woman back when.
Yes, but I think it's rather ridiculous to expect hundreds of millions of gay/bisexual people to live celibate for their entire lives. It doesn't even work for many priests who voluntarily choose that path, let alone those who are forced into celibacy involuntarily.
I truly don't understand how a person can actually worship and follow a religion that so despises gay people? I was so naive in the past and thought that religion wanted people to love everybody and now I realize that Christianty is more about hating others than anything else How can anybody actually continue to follow this and live with yourself?
Now I could be right ( or ) I could be wrong " not really I'm right on point " JESUS died for every single " Gay " man , woman , boy , girl that ever lived on GODS green earth. Read the BIBLE and tell me where you see the hate..????
Now I could be right ( or ) I could be wrong " not really I'm right on point " JESUS died for every single " Gay " man , woman , boy , girl that ever lived on GODS green earth. Read the BIBLE and tell me where you see the hate..????
Gay is not a sin
Gay is not a disease
Gay is not a mental condition
Gay is simply being attracted to the same gender.
To infer jesus died for gays, you are simply deeming them to be sinners and/or defective.
The obvious question is, if jesus was god incarnate, died for the sins of man etc. why could he simply not fix the problem of sinfulness or gayness as you deem it to be wrong?
Why did he need to die simply to leave mankind in a fallen state?
Your god did not get it right with the flood and he sure did not get it right with jesus dying.
Gays come from some very religious and devout christian families. Is god punishing them by allowing their son or daughter to be gay? Are the parents at fault?
The theist see gay as a choice but it is not. I did not choose to be straight, I was born that way. Neither can gays choose to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex, in their minds, it is natural to them.
If you can answer all these questions w/o citing walls of biblical text, then you maybe we can listen to what you have to say.
Now I could be right ( or ) I could be wrong " not really I'm right on point " JESUS died for every single " Gay " man , woman , boy , girl that ever lived on GODS green earth. Read the BIBLE and tell me where you see the hate..????
Hate is spread throughout the bible...Both in the old testament and the new. Below is one example from the old testament.
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." This calls for the execution of men who engage in at least some form of same-sex behavior.
And one from the new.
Thessalonians 2:14-15: "...ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men." This passage has been used to promote anti-Judaism and anti-semitism up to the present time.
I truly don't understand how a person can actually worship and follow a religion that so despises gay people? I was so naive in the past and thought that religion wanted people to love everybody and now I realize that Christianty is more about hating others than anything else How can anybody actually continue to follow this and live with yourself?
I do not care about or agree with gay people in the 1st place so it doesnt bother me at all that my religion is anti-gay. I actually believe what the Bible says and that homosexuality is wrong, unnatural, and disturbing. The Bible says that God loves ALL PEOPLE whether they are gay or not. Not sure where you get that all Christians hate gay people the ones who say that are usually have an agenda to put forward.
With that said, I certainty do not need homosexuals approving of my religion nor do they need me to approve of their sexual orientation.
I do not care about or agree with gay people in the 1st place so it doesnt bother me at all that my religion is anti-gay. I actually believe what the Bible says and that homosexuality is wrong, unnatural, and disturbing. The Bible says that God loves ALL PEOPLE whether they are gay or not. Not sure where you get that all Christians hate gay people the ones who say that are usually have an agenda to put forward.
You obviously don't know what the Bible actually says if you believe that.
And you just said you do not care about gay people, but follow it up with God loves all people. You just contradicted yourself.
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With that said, I certainty do not need homosexuals approving of my religion nor do they need me to approve of their sexual orientation.
Nope. Most gays probably consider your conservative variety of beliefs to be archaic and oppressive. Dark age beliefs predicated on ignorance and bigotry. They certainly aren't based on evidence or sound biblical hermeneutics.
All Sex , Vex , Hex outside of Marriage ( 1 Man 1 Woman ) is Sin
Gay is not a disease
I agree
Gay is not a mental condition
I agree
Gay is simply being attracted to the same gender.
I agree
To infer jesus died for gays, you are simply deeming them to be sinners and/or defective.
All of mankind is defective with the 1 exception of JESUS
The obvious question is, if jesus was god incarnate, died for the sins of man etc. why could he simply not fix the problem of sinfulness or gayness as you deem it to be wrong?
The 2nd Coming of JESUS will " Handle All Of That " just wait...
Why did he need to die simply to leave mankind in a fallen state?
He's trying to save as many " lost souls as possible.....
Your god did not get it right with the flood and he sure did not get it
right with jesus dying.
The Flood was meant to simply control SIN the " death of JESUS " was meant to " totally do away with SIN at his 2nd COMING "
Gays come from some very religious and devout christian families. Is god punishing them by allowing their son or daughter to be gay? Are the parents at fault?
The HOMOSEXUAL CHURCH Started in the San Francisco Bay Area , but GOD isn't punishing them by simply pointing out the "things " that will forever separate them from "Himself " , the Parent are not at fault " every person is responsible for their's OWN SINS.
The theist see gay as a choice but it is not. I did not choose to be straight, I was born that way. Neither can gays choose to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex, in their minds, it is natural to them.
1 see gays having the same freedom of choice as me " I'm a Adulterer " ,but I choose to not commit Adultery in my marriage Married for about 30 years and only committed adultery (1) time , that the same thing that ( Homosexual bring themselves ) to do if they really wanted to.....Naturally I want to have Hetersexual Sex with MANY WOMEN but I remain FAITHFUL to my WIFE.
If you can answer all these questions w/o citing walls of biblical text, then you maybe we can listen to what you have to say.
I Laid it out for you to plainly see , so now let the communication begain.....
Hate is spread throughout the bible...Both in the old testament and the new. Below is one example from the old testament.
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." This calls for the execution of men who engage in at least some form of same-sex behavior.
Old Testament doesn't control the Salvation of New Testament Christianty..........
And one from the new.
Thessalonians 2:14-15: "...ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men." This passage has been used to promote anti-Judaism and anti-semitism up to the present time.
The BIBLE has been used to Promote SLAVERY you can use the BIBLE to promote Dammible Practices......
I Laid it out for you to plainly see , so now let the communication begain.....
The problem is you see sex as sin, I do not and neither do most of the world. Sex is natural.
Marriage is a construct of the church.
Mankind is not defective, you have been duped into that way of thinking.
So god/jesus needs three attempts to fix his defects? Sounds like your god is very incompetent.
Adultery has nothing to do with being gay.
It is obvious that you are imagining their gay sex acts but their relationships are not just about sex. You know that love thingy?
All xians see when condemning the gays is the act of sex itself. They are not doing it 24/7 just like you are likely at your age not doing it every night.
Please do not bring in the procreation argument as gays come from straight families, they cannot breed clones of themselves and those that adopt do not bring their kids up to be gay. Lesbians can use in vitro to get pregnant. Allowing gay folk the freedom to marry and raise children is no threat to society. There will always be gays and there always were. Call it one your your god's odd little defects seeing you hold to the fall myth.
No one chooses to be gay. Why would they. Everyone hates gays mostly but not one of them can tell you why except for the fact they are different or that their bible tells them it is an abomination. Do any of them lose sleep at night in fear of a gay prowler?
You agreed it is not contagious. Gay men are not attracted to straight men, they kind of find each other, likewise with lesbians.
Th bisexuals seem to be the ones exercising choice and on them I have no opinion but if that floats their boat, who am I to judge them? I lose no sleep over them and they are no threat. I am glad where I live they have full autonomy and equal rights just like everyone else.
There is no gay agenda to indoctrinate the youth into being gay, as you admitted they are born that way. They may want to have an hour to assure people they are different and human and to change perceptions about them. They will not teach folk how to be gay by showing them explicit video or pictures, the internet has ample examples of that, just like schools do not show porn or photos of sex but stick to diagrams in sex ed.
The gay aspect of my child's sex ed at school in social studies took all of 10 minutes. Horrors.
99% of folk will marry and procreate as your god intended and many of them will have gay children.
Accepting these folk so that they do not go through the mental anguish of being hated by society is what is needed, you cannot pray the gay away and often when this has been tried, the kids end their lives rather than to try and fit in as a "defective" human being. Where does anyone derive morality or pleasure in such narrow mindedness and bigotry? The mantra of hate the sin not the sinner is merely a cliche for the bigots to hide or express their hate in a more PC way. The gay folk still see this as an affront on them personally. IOW it is sugar coating a turd.
Kids may experiment with same sex as pubescent teens but that does not make them gay. If they are straight, it will be just an experiment and they will move onto hereto relationships.
In the end it really boils down to what is done behind closed doors is no ones business.
The single biggest objection xians have with gays is the male on male acts and the ick factor. Realize male on female is icky for them.
Now if xians were to demonstrate that they ONLY breed hetero offspring, the xian may have an argument.
BTW I am married 26 years (plus two years shacking up) with two children and I am straight plus I have never had an affair. I did have sex with many women prior to my marriage.
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Didn't JESUS Die For Gays....????
How can anybody actually continue to follow this and live with yourself?
