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I guess that's similar to the creation of God than, right? Oh yeah I forgot, because something is existing outside of space and time we can't see him, feel him, or sense him yet we can all believe in him and he doesn't need a creator. Yet, the earth we live on and can feel, sense, touch and sense is merely a creation of the creator who was never created, right? I'll stick with science
To each his own. God still loves you even though you don't believe He exists. Someday, you and everyone else will. Then you can begin to get to know Him...not that we Christians are any better than you by any merit of our own, not at all! We have just jump-started on the getting to know God part.
To each his own. God still loves you even though you don't believe He exists. Someday, you and everyone else will. Then you can begin to get to know Him...not that we Christians are any better than you by any merit of our own, not at all! We have just jump-started on the getting to know God part.
You know what's funny? It's funny how people always say that the day they die will be the day they find out. Even atheists say that. Heck, I think I've said it more than once. What's funny about that is when I die I don't expect to "know" anything. I'll be dead. That's it. So I'll never know. It's kind of irritating, like the math problem that eludes even the finest mathemiticians.
You know what's funny? It's funny how people always say that the day they die will be the day they find out. Even atheists say that. Heck, I think I've said it more than once. What's funny about that is when I die I don't expect to "know" anything. I'll be dead. That's it. So I'll never know. It's kind of irritating, like the math problem that eludes even the finest mathemiticians.
Ah, GCS, you are a seeker of the truth. May you find it.
You know what's funny? It's funny how people always say that the day they die will be the day they find out. Even atheists say that. Heck, I think I've said it more than once. What's funny about that is when I die I don't expect to "know" anything. I'll be dead. That's it. So I'll never know. It's kind of irritating, like the math problem that eludes even the finest mathemiticians.
Yes, I've noticed the same but didn't want to comment on it for fear it would turn into a huge debate. I thought all Atheists didn't believe in God...period.
My, my... a guy goes away for a while and look what happens
I don't know if I have enough concern any longer about this forum to even bother a response to the questions posed to my prior posts. I'm getting a terrible headache from banging that darn brick wall. Let me just state my replies without point-by-point refutation and see if that appeases the masses.
First and foremost I am a fundamentalist. I believe in and trust the fundamentals of Christianity. As such, I believe the Bible is the Word of God as it claims. This is not circular in my view as there are 66 separate books that are combined to make up the one book we call the Bible that support and confirm each other. Others disagree and that's fine. So when the Bible tells me what happened in the past, especially in a narrative way and not allegory or metaphor, I interpret it as such and believe it because the Bible said it.
I have never questioned anyone's salvation on this forum, no matter what their philosophies, beliefs or lack thereof. I even expressly stated a literal interpretation/belief in Genesis was not mandatory for salvation, but appears to be an inconsistancy for believers. I posted replies in response to questions about how I could believe in it and why.
As far as the additional questions, food, excrement, whether the ark could have even be built, I'll just post a couple more links. All the links contain the answers I believe in. Others don't believe those answers and that's fine. But I would expect the same tolerance towards myself as I give others regarding where our information comes from. Just because some disagree with a website's position or basic beliefs, doesn't mean the information contained therein is any less factual or reliable simply because they don't want to believe it could happen that way. You can still click on the other links provided previously.
Now, about who these scientists are and what are there credentials... I don't have to post them, but I will. If it's a matter of how many/what kind of credentials your support comes from, some on here are in trouble if that's what it's going to boil down to. Here are a few of the scientists who believe in Noah's ark as fact. The first even has a book you can purchase on the subject that should also answer your questions.
John Woodmorappe: BA Biology; BA & MA in Geology
John Baumgardner, PhD: B.S., Electrical Engineering, Texas Tech, 1968
M.S., Electrical Engineering, Princeton, 1970
M.S., Geophysics and Space Physics, UCLA, 1981
Ph.D., Geophysics and Space Physics, UCLA, 1983
John D. Morris, PhD: B.S., Civil Engineering, Virginia Polytechnic Institute
M.S., Geological Engineering, University of Oklahoma.
Ph.D., Geological Engineering, Univ. of Oklahoma
Asst. Professor of Geological Engineering from 1980-'84
at Oklahoma University as well.
But the same gaps are filled with science when nothing can be proved...such as the creation of life and such.
Nope. Not correct at all. You see, nothing is EVER "proved" in science or in anything else that relies on evidence. When scientists don't know the answer to something they respond with, "We don't know yet but we're working on it."
Relying on "goddidit" means that your God is going to keep shrinking as science learns more and more. It also means that the Christian scriptures will look more and more ridiculous to non-believers when they say one thing and reality says something else. Perhaps this would be a good place to interject one of my favorite quotes from one of the most highly regarded of the early Christian fathers:
Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 CE)
It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.
– The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 1:19–20, Chapt. 19 [AD 408]
Nope. Not correct at all. You see, nothing is EVER "proved" in science or in anything else that relies on evidence. When scientists don't know the answer to something they respond with, "We don't know yet but we're working on it."
Relying on "goddidit" means that your God is going to keep shrinking as science learns more and more. It also means that the Christian scriptures will look more and more ridiculous to non-believers when they say one thing and reality says something else. Perhaps this would be a good place to interject one of my favorite quotes from one of the most highly regarded of the early Christian fathers:
(emphasis added)
LOL---do you really think we are basing all of our beliefs simply upon a book? Sure I recognize it to be Divinely Inspired, but you forget that a true Christian experience is a heart-changing one, a spiritual one. If you haven't experienced it, you can't claim to know what the heck we are all talking about. I don't say this to belittle you or to condescend, but it is a simple statement of fact.
It's all about reason and logic to you, which are great things that God gave us and expects us to use. But to cling ONLY to those things and reject everything we don't understand is just sad, and limits one's spiritual growth in this life we are given.
Nope. Not correct at all. You see, nothing is EVER "proved" in science or in anything else that relies on evidence. When scientists don't know the answer to something they respond with, "We don't know yet but we're working on it."
Then how come "scientists" say they KNOW the earth was created by natural causes and not God when they cannot prove it? How come "scientists" KNOW the first life evolved from non-living matter when no one has witnessed it or reproduced it? I have yet to hear a "scientist" who believes in evolution say "we don't know yet but we're working on it" instead they KNOW it happened the way they BELIEVE it to have happened. No facts, just belief on their part.
Now, about who these scientists are and what are there credentials... I don't have to post them, but I will. If it's a matter of how many/what kind of credentials your support comes from, some on here are in trouble if that's what it's going to boil down to. Here are a few of the scientists who believe in Noah's ark as fact. The first even has a book you can purchase on the subject that should also answer your questions.
John Woodmorappe: BA Biology; BA & MA in Geology
You mean this John Woodmorappe? Well, I can at least grant that Mr. Pezckis has real science credentials, although I don't understand why he tries to hide his beliefs from the peer-reviewers of the mainstream journals he has published in by writing his creationist books and articles under a pseudonym.
Quote:
John Baumgardner, PhD: B.S., Electrical Engineering, Texas Tech, 1968
M.S., Electrical Engineering, Princeton, 1970
M.S., Geophysics and Space Physics, UCLA, 1981
Ph.D., Geophysics and Space Physics, UCLA, 1983
Okay, I'll accepth that Baumgardner has valid geophysical credentials, but it's kind of hard to credit him as a serious scientist since he has no peer-reviewed publications I am able to find. In fact, a search of Google Scholar only turns up articles published under the aegis of the ICR and articles at TalkOrigins that thoroughly disprove his assertions.
Quote:
John D. Morris, PhD: B.S., Civil Engineering, Virginia Polytechnic Institute
M.S., Geological Engineering, University of Oklahoma.
Ph.D., Geological Engineering, Univ. of Oklahoma
Asst. Professor of Geological Engineering from 1980-'84
at Oklahoma University as well.
I am an engineer. Engineers are not scientists. They do not engage in scientific research with a goal of discovering new knowledge. Engineering research is concerned with implementation of technology utilizing knowledge learned through the research of scientists.
That being said, John D. Morris is almost as well known to those of us who deny young earth creationism as his father Henry Morris was. He does, in fact, have the scientific credentials he claims to have, unlike many other so-called "creation scientists." A search of the TalkOrigins archive turns up some 144 references to Dr. Morris, almost all of which are refutations of his publications under the aegis of the ICR, of which he is the current President. There are also links to Answers in Creation where several of his key arguments are thoroughly dismantled by various old earth creationists.
Neither of theses organizations is considered to be a reliable source for scientific information. I must admit I am not completely familiar with the content of the ICR website to the extent I am familiar with Answers in Genesis. I can show you articles on Answers in Genesis where they try to misrepresent the content of not only evolutionary biologists but also old-earth creationist publications. I'm sure if I was diligent I could probably find similar material on ICR. Neither of these sites can be counted on to publish truth, much less valid science.
I want to thank you for not citing any of the following:
Thomas Barnes
"Dr." Carl Baugh
"Dr. Richard Bliss
"Dr." Clifford Burdick
"Dr." John Grebe
"Dr." Kent Hovind (currently serving 120 months in a federal prison for tax fraud.
"Dr." Don Patton
"Dr." Kelly Segraves, or
"Dr." Harold Slusher
because I dislike shooting fish in a barrel.
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Oh yeah I forgot, because something is existing outside of space and time we can't see him, feel him, or sense him yet we can all believe in him and he doesn't need a creator. Yet, the earth we live on and can feel, sense, touch and sense is merely a creation of the creator who was never created, right? I'll stick with science 
Small rant?
