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Old 09-29-2012, 07:27 PM
 
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My take on it from another thread on this subject: Plus to answer the question - NO! Some of the reasons are below.

Quote:
Some other points about why the NT writers did not think of their writing as 'Scripture' on par with the OT.

1) Eschatology: They thought the return of the Lord was near and soon and as such no need for any new writings. Only after a period of delay and growth (25-30 years) did the writers start to 'explain' and 'establish' the 'facts' of their faith. This is for a number of reasons - one being competing ideas about what and how to believe and what Jesus 'really' taught.

2) Specificity: Most letters were for local regions regarding local problems only to be circulated within that region. The collection of these writings into a Corpus was a post apostolic and post-hoc attempt to standardize and universalize those theological views. The OT was thought of as such and was therefore a National Corpus of God, a legal and theological work. The apostolic writers had no such inclination. Their writings were mostly about instructions, clarifications, and doctrine based on previous material that was already believed to be inspired (the OT and Christ's teaching which flowed from the OT) and their physical closeness to the Lord's teaching (except in the case of Paul who convieniently had a vision of the risen Lord and was instructed personally by Him).

3) Delay: It must not have been that important if it took 25-30 years to get to establishing the facts and when done so it was not the intention of the writer to standardize that letter and send it to all the the regions that had churches in them. This was done later as noted in #2.
Here is the thread: Is the New Testament Inspired Scriptures?
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:58 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,147,124 times
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Just to put some things in perspective. We learned from our Jewish members there is a ritual and a prayer for lifting the scroll

Torah

This is not something that was tucked under one's arm and carted around.

It is likely the compilation of the NT was a mass collation of similar letters and smaller documents that may have been in circulation and gathered together and then edited and redacted to remove personal "add ons" Remember this only happened ±350 years after the alleged jesus fella. One also needs to understand that one simply did not go down to the local market and purchase a ream of paper and a quill, scribes would have been few and far between.

Add in personal embellishments and 350 years, it is really a recipe for stuff to get lost in translation, other myths incorporated etc. By the time of the advent of the council of Nicea, enough time had elapsed and enough Hellenisation had drifted in and also other pagan concepts. Of course if the bible is the only ancient text you ever read with years of bad biased translations and misinterpretations, then you will not know this.

The game of telephone comes to mind here and by the time the hierarchy decided to consolidate everything, there must have been oodles of versions of the same story. We do know post Nicea, they RC fiddled the texts and only discovery of manuscripts that differed brought this to light. Hence nothing you read in the bible can be taken at face value, they definitely were not first hand accounts by any means. Folk are however taught that the act of copying was so strictly governed that one minute error and it was all scrapped and the poor manual Xerox sap had to start all over again. This is an urban legend too. granted they did not have tippex either but do you really believe these letters were copied to such accuracy? Ever had to copy homework from someone? It would be about the same and the owner of said letter/gospel would not leave it unattended as probably back then, the written accounts were like hen's teeth.

One the hierarchy had compiled and decided what stories they would use of this jesus fella, all other docs had to be destroyed.

Then we discovered hidden docs and gnostic texts that tell a totally different story. Some clearly suggest Jesus was married which did not gel well with the man-god amorphisation that had occurred. It really should not matter concerning his teachings as they should stand up on their own merit w/o him having deification thrust upon his dead memory. But his teachings were not that unique anyway.

My belief is that this jesus fella was very anti religious, you can glean that off some of his teachings, yet he does come over religious as actions and words are placed in his mouth. He probably performed zero miracles and trying to fact check stuff 40+ years after the events, well we battle even today to do that.

Arequipa has done fine work in doing an atithesis of the non harmony of the gospels. When you have an app like eSword that erroneously highlights similarities but fails to highlight the inconsistencies, well you know you are being lied to even if the motive is not anything more than seeking validation.

Really the only mistake the early fathers made, they never counted on the printing press and mass literacy that would come centuries later and now with our new friend teh google, well info is just a few key strokes and a click away from the comfort of your own home, neat huh? Problem is the built in confirmation bias we were programmed with generally finds us trusting apologetic sites and avoiding the heathen ones. The heathen ones are usually more accurate as their is no bias to satisfy, only truth is relevant.

It was my friend Arequipa that showed me another way of reading w/o bias and let me come to my own conclusions (LoL he must be the antichrist ) I set out to prove him wrong but in the end having to bring more than apologetic twaddle to the table, I was forced to examine both sides and the other side (now my side) won the day. Of course I was at the time in pursuit of god and that was the name of the forum we met on and I probably would have come to this same conclusion eventually.

Anyway back to the NT. One has to let go of your 21st century mindset and try and envisage how texts would have been handled back then, how rare they were and once you have studied the events leading up to the council of Nicea from where all christianity originates, I am sure you will realise that the way they teach this subject is like a bucket full of holes

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Old 01-07-2018, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritwalker View Post
Did Jesus utter the words in my humble layman's terms of course, "Fellas I want you to do some writing about me and when you're done I want you to call this "The New Testament." I cannot recall anywhere in The Bible where Jesus said this or any thing like this. So no Jesus didn't literally say this.

Jesus is my personal Savior so I won't go into extolling his virtues and what it means to me and all that believe. The question was posed and I gave my answer. Amen
Spiritwalker
It’s very likely he did. I do know in Revelation, our Lord says to John “Take out your pen and write down my words and deliver them to the angels of the 7 Churches of Asia”. Something along those lines.
Not everything is “Written” IE I’m sure you celebrate Christmas as the birthdate of Jesus Christ, yet his birth date is not written. One must draw the conclusion, it wasn’t written because it was of little significance.

A number of the prophets including Jeremiah where told to write down the word of God so it’s fair to assume that these men didn’t need to be told, it would of been expected.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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It is very UNlikely that He did. Look what the Jews had done with THEIR book. What He DID promise was a guide not bound by paper and ink.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:22 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
It is very UNlikely that He did. Look what the Jews had done with THEIR book. What He DID promise was a guide not bound by paper and ink.
Amen!
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
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He did with Revelation and Revelation is just showing the fall holy days unfolding in Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot. If you don't know the 7 feasts of Jesus like the back of your hand and every duty of the priests officiating in the fall Holy days, then you should even speak of Revelation and there is a warning at the end of the book for those who are speaking about things they don't know or practice, or even want to know. You are reading detailed traditions, prayers and duties of the priests during Rosh Hashanah, the ten days to Yom Kipur, Yom Kippur, the 4 days to Sukkot, Sukkot, and Shemini Atzeret. But if you don't know the Torah cycle and what is said and done on the fall holy days, you can never, EVER understand Revelation and you shouldn't talk about it unless you begin on Tishri one and then begin to explain Revelation chapter after chapter and how it relates to each of the fall Holy days appointed for the second coming of Christ IN YOU. It is written to every believer who would reject the ways of the world to come and begin to walk in God's holy days as they are becoming,'' Israel.''
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:59 AM
 
3,426 posts, read 1,254,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
. Look what the Jews had done with THEIR book.
I genuinely want to know more about this. Please explain in more detail, what did Jews do to their book, in your opinion, and how Jesus fixed it?
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:41 AM
Status: "More than chromosomes." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Anderson, IN
4,062 posts, read 1,142,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
Which is, in my opinion equal to writting an unathorized Biography. Now, this is just my opinion, but perhaps someone else more knowledgeable can clarify.
Could be, but there weren't laws regarding such things back then (I don't think); so no harm, no foul.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,542 posts, read 6,992,023 times
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I genuinely want to know more about this. Please explain in more detail, what did Jews do to their book, in your opinion, and how Jesus fixed it?
What Jesus accused them of doing more than once, obsessing about the forms of Law and worship but not the spirit that should have animated them. e.g.how to measure spices for tithe, but not the reason for doing so (Matt 23:23) How to get around Sabbath travel restrictions and other lawyers' tricks. Jesus abolished Law AS BASIS FOR JUDGEMENT and went straight to the heart" our commitment to the kind of love that is the basis of our interaction with God and man.
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:34 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
What Jesus accused them of doing more than once, obsessing about the forms of Law and worship but not the spirit that should have animated them. e.g.how to measure spices for tithe, but not the reason for doing so (Matt 23:23) How to get around Sabbath travel restrictions and other lawyers' tricks. Jesus abolished Law AS BASIS FOR JUDGEMENT and went straight to the heart" our commitment to the kind of love that is the basis of our interaction with God and man.
Nice.
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