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i guess it all comes down to personal choice. i have been around long enough to gain a fair amont of knowledge and experience and like i said have a pretty open mind on things. i agree with your way of thinking but i dont always agree with the end results. like you said some believe we come from apes others say the Lima so still the jury is out. that's the same for a lot of the conclusions we have come to and are constantly updating them. in everything i do i try to find out how it works and is it true. it is good to compare and a lot of things just haven't got the full answer as yet. sometimes science will come to a conclusion and then have to rethink like with gravity and dark matter and energy. we are now beginning to question newtons laws as we have discovered this new force that has an influence on things. in fact they are saying that dark energy keeps everything in just the right place and there is not just nothing out there between the planets and stars but a form of matter and energy that is keeping everything just right and the error for margin is very small so they are wondering how this can be to just chance. that it seems the work of an intelligent agent and if you were to try and build this you would have the most elaborate and complex device that could have just come from nothing and fell into place.
even though i enjoy finding out more about who we are and where we come from the other question that plays on peoples minds are is there something after this life and do we go on, is there a part of us that we dont know much about that is beyond this realm. science gives us many answers and can work out many things but it cant give an answer on the after life. peoples views on this are personal and you cant argue black or white about it, science will come up with reasons why it cannot be or it will give a theory as to why people may feel this way but it still doesn't change the fact that people still believe in something. it maybe a personal experience or something that they have witnessed that makes them believe very strongly sometimes to the point that it is as real as being seen in front of them. of course some will say its the way humans react they need a crutch or something to give them hope but its just a way of coping. some will say the person is emotionally immature or slightly mad and there is no fact in what they believe.
science cannot answer these question yet still some will give up their lives to save another and others will kill through revenge, greed and hatred. some will do good works all their lives and sacrifice their own wants and even needs to help others. evolution says that we evolve and adapt to the environment and only those who have the beneficial qualities that allow them to adapt and will continue to survive. that we are a product of our environment and when we die that's it we are no more and will go back into the ground from which we came. we came from animals and are all linked but we have a higher intelligence than animals. animals will kill on instinct and have no regard for life as far as kindness is concerned. i dont think animals can hate or have revenge they may protect and kill for food but we humans have another aspect that is yet to be discovered fully. people want more than just 70 or 80 years on this earth, if you speak to older people like when i worked in a nursing home you will find that many change as they near the end of their lives and some will be at peace knowing that there is more to it than what they just lived esp when they had a hard life. if this life is it then some have had a horrible existence and i would feel ripped off and it would be unfair. they would be tearing down the walls to get what they could as it only lasts but a short time. we are moving towards an unbridled future where science and tech are giving us everything we need and as time as gone on we have became more comfortable and are saving people with new advances in medicine. at the same time depression is increasing and many are committing suicide because they feel their life here is not worth it. so there are a lot of questions that need to be answered and we have to question whether what we are doing is right otherwise despite all the great advances we will end up destroying everything and then what nothing.
science gives us many answers and can work out many things but it cant give an answer on the after life.
Correction: It HAS NOT given such an answer. That does not mean it can not. Do not make the error of thinking that if X can not do Y now then X can never do Y. They are two massively and entirely different statements.
However there is no forthcoming evidence, argument, data or reasoning on offer to suggest there might even BE an after life. At all. So why would science even attempt to turn it's eye on to the fanciful fantasy of the common man until such time as there is cause to?
Especially when the biases....
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Originally Posted by stevevw
people want more than just 70 or 80 years on this earth
.... for why people hold to unsubstantiated nonsense are so blatantly clear and egregious.
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Originally Posted by stevevw
so there are a lot of questions that need to be answered
There are. And we are working on it. I fail to see how making up nonsense in the interim helps that cause however.
With the universe 13 billion years old and the age of the earth, there is not enough time allotted for chance mathematically to produce the anthropic world
Your workings for this are forthcoming I assume? Or did you just declare it by fiat?
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Originally Posted by macpherson
we would be seeing things which we do not see if so.
Such as what, and why?
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Originally Posted by macpherson
Not to mention the perfect sun, solar system and conditions in an allowable solar system for life moving about the milky way and galaxy , and the galaxy itself.
Add it all up and a lousy 13 billion years not to mention a planet perfectly knocked on its axis by the moon , for atmosphere and photosynthesis accommodating life.
You are committing Douglas Adams "Puddle" fallacy here.
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Originally Posted by macpherson
It needs some kind of transcendent designer.
Why? Because you say so? Because you want it to be so? Or have you the first shred of substantiation for the above claim aside from possible "Argument From Ignorance" fallacy?
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Originally Posted by macpherson
problem is everything they discover is promptly brought over to the theist desk
Nothing in science that I am aware of has in any way supported a single theist claim about the existence of a god.
With the universe 13 billion years old and the age of the earth, there is not enough time allotted for chance mathematically to produce the anthropic world
Exactly how much time does the universe need to produce an anthropic world ... and how do you know this?
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Not to mention the perfect sun, solar system and conditions in an allowable solar system for life moving about the milky way and galaxy , and the galaxy itself. Add it all up and a lousy 13 billion years not to mention a planet perfectly knocked on its axis by the moon , for atmosphere and photosynthesis accommodating life. It needs some kind of transcendent designer.
I've always found this to be a curious argument. Actually, I believe this argument is evidence of NO intelligent designer rather than proving there IS one. Here's why:
A truly all-powerful, universe-creating deity could plop life down onto any planet he chose. In fact, he could create life that simply floats around in the vacuum of space. This all-powerful deity could have even created humans that could live on the surface of stars or inside nebulae or in the atmospheres of gas giants.
When we're talking about what essentially amounts to infinite magic, nothing -- absolutely nothing -- is off the table. Nothing says that humanity needed a perfect star or a particular climate or a certain atmosphere to live in because, ostensibly, the conditions necessary for human life hadn't been established before this deity decided to create us.
So why, then, the complexity? Why are there so many variables needed to be met in order to bring about human life? If this god had to place all of these variables in the universe "just so" in order to create a suitable habitat for humans, what it sounds like to me is that "God" was playing by someone else's rules.
Think about it for a moment. Doesn't this all sound like a "grad school for godlings" science project? I can almost see the experiment parameters now:
"Using the blank universe provided, design a cosmos suitable for an oxygen-nitrogen-breathing intelligent hominid species. In order to get full credit, you must show the interaction between galaxies, solar systems, and individual planets and moons. Keep in mind such factors as the gravitational constants, the various laws of thermodynamics, tidal forces, and possible changes in atmospheric conditions over long periods of time. You are not allowed to change any of the laws of physics that have already been established."
I think the godling who created this particular universe only received a B- as he seems to have forgotten certain variables such as natural disasters, plagues, asteroid impacts, and climate change.
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and the rest is history.
The story of Adam and Eve is certainly NOT history. It is just one of thousands of creation myths that tries to explain the existence of "evil" through storytelling. In fact, the Adam and Eve story is a direct rip-off of the Greek myth of Pandora.
Exactly how much time does the universe need to produce an anthropic world ... and how do you know this?
I've always found this to be a curious argument. Actually, I believe this argument is evidence of NO intelligent designer rather than proving there IS one. Here's why:
A truly all-powerful, universe-creating deity could plop life down onto any planet he chose. In fact, he could create life that simply floats around in the vacuum of space. This all-powerful deity could have even created humans that could live on the surface of stars or inside nebulae or in the atmospheres of gas giants.
When we're talking about what essentially amounts to infinite magic, nothing -- absolutely nothing -- is off the table. Nothing says that humanity needed a perfect star or a particular climate or a certain atmosphere to live in because, ostensibly, the conditions necessary for human life hadn't been established before this deity decided to create us.
So why, then, the complexity? Why are there so many variables needed to be met in order to bring about human life? If this god had to place all of these variables in the universe "just so" in order to create a suitable habitat for humans, what it sounds like to me is that "God" was playing by someone else's rules.
Think about it for a moment. Doesn't this all sound like a "grad school for godlings" science project? I can almost see the experiment parameters now:
"Using the blank universe provided, design a cosmos suitable for an oxygen-nitrogen-breathing intelligent hominid species. In order to get full credit, you must show the interaction between galaxies, solar systems, and individual planets and moons. Keep in mind such factors as the gravitational constants, the various laws of thermodynamics, tidal forces, and possible changes in atmospheric conditions over long periods of time. You are not allowed to change any of the laws of physics that have already been established."
I think the godling who created this particular universe only received a B- as he seems to have forgotten certain variables such as natural disasters, plagues, asteroid impacts, and climate change.
The story of Adam and Eve is certainly NOT history. It is just one of thousands of creation myths that tries to explain the existence of "evil" through storytelling. In fact, the Adam and Eve story is a direct rip-off of the Greek myth of Pandora.
Even if the Story of Adam and Eve is a rip off, all it would mean is there is another Adam or Eve.
Everything worth anything achieves, its a value, things unfold , thinking for example so all your doing is criticizing an unfolding manner which includes many things.
Last edited by macpherson; 10-07-2013 at 04:28 AM..
DNA Evident States That We Have A Common Ancestry , I guess that's proves ADAM and EVE.
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DNA Evident States That We Have A Common Ancestry
