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Old 07-05-2011, 05:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Why does love need another name?
This could have been the thread topic.
It sums it up well. Thanks, Hooligan.
God, to me is the highest best of any given circumstance, which is best found through both intellect & intuition.
Love is hoping & striving for what is best, through trial & error.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBeavs View Post
...Say you're standing shoulder-to-shoulder in the middle of a row of 100 people. 99 of them take a step forward. You don't move. The 99 turn to you and say "hey, why'd you take a step backward?".

You didn't. Everyone else moved. The atheists are the people who didn't take that step. Sure, some of us stepped forward with our parents, then came back to the place where we were born (no awareness/belief in God).

Atheism is a natural state. It's not some angry rebellion.

Furthermore (as an aside) how do you "explore" the idea of a creator existing? There is no evidence; no data to explore. None.
CaptBeavs,
In order to deny something, you must first define what it is you're denying.
You seem to define God on the "99 religous peoples'" definition.
How do YOU define God? If you defined God how some religious people do, I'd deny that type of God too.
How do you define love, serendipity & invisible but influential energy (like dark energy/matter)? It's not a question of it being real - it is real - because it has evidence of its influence.
It's just a question of how YOU define it, & that has influence in your life (whether you believe it does or not).

How do you know you weren't spiritually aware as a newborn? Do you remember? Or can you read other babies' minds?
Each of my children, when they were babies, would often look up at the blank ceiling & act as if someone was there - they'd laugh or make babbling sounds.
I'm not sure about what things mean, but I keep an open mind.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Gods are man made constructs, spirituality is the term used to describe how gods are perceived.

IOW, all in the mind and imaginary.
Everything we perceive or believe is in our mind & imagination - from religious traditions to hypotheseis & interpretations of science experiments.

Do you think there is evidence that the mind & imagination has influence?
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
God is the omnipotent/omniscient being that created the Universe and set its physical constants. This concept allows for an absolute Truth, gratitude for existence, and meaning. Although as there is no incontrovertible proof of God's existence some feel that there is no reason to believe in such a being. Going on something like the notion of "logical truths" where things are only believed to exist if they must exist or can't not exist. There are things about God I believe, that are more specific to my religion, but I'll get into them later.

Spirituality initially referred to the soul and spirits. I would guess in particular a feeling of connection or concern for one's soul, angels, spirits, and so forth. In a secular sense I suppose "spirituality" can mean a concern for the things of the "soul" if by "soul" we simply mean the emotional side in one's nature or the "core" of one's identity as an individual. So there have been metaphysical-naturalist who deem themselves "spiritual" because they are deeply reflective, desire strong emotional connection to others, and look for or desire profound emotional or artistic experiences.

Still this is perhaps a little too non-specific. As a Catholic I might say God can not entirely be understood, but that De Summa Theologica and the Nicene Creed may give you a start. That spirituality concerns the Holy Spirit and the Soul. I feel I should add that I see love of God and Neighbor as important to spirituality. Therefore, in my personal view, atheists can't really be spiritual in the most proper sense of the term. (Although an atheist who loves something greater than Humanity, like Nature, and loves/cares-for other people might be close) Bringing up specific Christian terms might imply non-Christians can't be spiritual either, but I think I feel that in a way non-Christians can love God and Neighbor. I fear I'm muddled on the more specifics as I was worried on even mentioning them.
Thanks, Thomas. You seem to always shed a new perspective on things.
Do you think God is limited to the creation of our universe, or more?
How does a belief in God give gratitude & meaning to life?
IMO, how we define God, is partly how we define ourselves & others.

As you compared spirituality with emotions, it reminded me of how interconnected psychology ("the study of the soul") & spirituality are.
I agree, that God cannot be completely understood & that love is an important part of spirituality.
I hope you don't fear mentioning specifics, but I understand why you might.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I would agree, and I keep that very much in mind and do my best to be as objective as humanly/personally possible. I suspect that many people of a religious background who vehemently deny even the possibility of the existence of a god perhaps discount the impact of the negative emotional response they have to god which is tied to their former relgious beliefs. Some (not all) seem unable or unwilling to consider that the beliefs they once had ABOUT god could be keeping them from keeping an open mind and exploring the idea that a god exists.
I agree! - It's like Shakespeare explained,
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet."

IMO, God/Spirituality is actively lived by everyone, according to my definition of God, because everyone is striving for what they think is best.
Except those who deny intuition are denying an important tool to discovering & achieving what's best.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
So everyone here saying god is love - what about the vikings and their one eyed warrior "god?" Are you calling the god many of them died believing 100% they where on their way to see, wrong? And you (obviously), right?

My way of thinking is not as arrogant, as i understand the need for these different views of god, consider them all valid, just the point where it connects to an afterlife is where i think it ends.

The need for odin makes just as much sense, and is just as valid as your god of love today.
I also understand the need for different view of God & consider them valid, from that perspective.
I don't believe any belief in God is "wrong."
In themselves, a belief is what it is... yet in relation to feelings & actions, they can be wrong if they cause anything but what is best.
It's like a note on an instrument - in itself it isn't wrong, but in relation to other notes or timing, it may be.

To me, love (or the God of love) is not just fluffy compliments & kisses... it's hoping & striving for what is best... & sometimes that is anything but.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:22 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Thanks, Thomas. You seem to always shed a new perspective on things.
Thanks for saying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Do you think God is limited to the creation of our universe, or more?
I'd say this is as yet unknown. I tend to think that the existence of other Universes is difficult or impossible to know. If they do exist than God would have created them as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
How does a belief in God give gratitude & meaning to life?
If the Universe simply is, with no Creator or Founder, than there is no one to be grateful to for it existing. It's like a wonderful work of art or machine without an artist or inventor. If there is a mind behind it than one can have someone to thank.

As for meaning I suppose meaning also comes from a mind. If the Universe is mindless and has no mind creating it it has no meaning. It's just kind of there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
IMO, how we define God, is partly how we define ourselves & others.
I suppose in a way. I think God is beyond human definitions in some ways, but how we relate to God does end up having to deal some with how we relate to ourselves and others. We still have human minds and have to think of things in a way compatible to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
As you compared spirituality with emotions, it reminded me of how interconnected psychology ("the study of the soul") & spirituality are.I agree, that God cannot be completely understood & that love is an important part of spirituality. I hope you don't fear mentioning specifics, but I understand why you might.
On the one hand I fear specifics inevitably just leads other to bash Christianity in general or Catholicism in specific. However also of concern to me is that specifics might lead me to say something non-Catholics deem hurtful. For a variety of reasons I relate to Protestant Christianity less than I do several non-Christian faiths. So sometimes I get a bit huffy when being "lumped in with Protestants" and then I worry that huffiness is uncharitable or hurtful. Protestants are often fine people, joining the Salvation Army apparently straightened up my sister's first husband, but it's just not what I believe in or even entirely understand.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
...As ThomasR said "Going on something like the notion of "logical truths" where things are only believed to exist if they must exist or can't not exist. " Consciousness and Intelligence" reveal what falls into that category . . a conscious intelligent Source for OUR consciousness and intelligence. Absent some magical "poof"(or euphemistic "emergence") the most important aspects of reality (the ones that require the explanation of them . . our consciousness and intelligence) cannot be accounted for, period. Logic is the least useful in this regard because of the impossibility of producing a syllogism that proceeds from premises of non-consciousness and no intelligence to predicates of both . . . "pseudo-explanations" involving rhetorical and euphemistic jargonese notwithstanding.
I do think logic has it's place... that intellect in combination with intuition is how we achieve our goals best.
Yet, as you implied, a significant aspect of reality cannot be accounted for, logically.
God is love & It's like the saying, "Love is the most illogical logic in the world."
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:47 PM
 
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My answer may surprise anyone who is familiar with my posts.

"God" as commonly used in 2011 is the personal name of an entity described by and spoken for by various human created religions that does not exist.

There is however, a creator. It is light, it is love, it is us, and we are it. It is all that is, everything else is but an illusion... a tool designed for optimal evolution. It is evolving, striving to attain a state of perfect, pure love. It created this reality, and many others, some like this, others quite different, and divided itself into us, individuated units of consciousness, so that we can explore, interact, learn by doing, and evolve. As we evolve we go on to greater challenges, and higher planes.

It is not eternal, but is large enough that for practical purposes seems to be. And it is the source.

Live, learn, love. Rinse and repeat. Try, try again, until we get it right. And we will, each and every one of us.

Einstein famously said, "Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one." I'm not even sure he, himself understood exactly what he meant, but he was precisely correct, even if a few decades too soon to be able to make the next logical conclusion. Quantum physics is now able to prove, in my opinion anyway, that this life, this place, the chair under your tuchus and the computer on which you're reading these words are, in fact, an illusion. An experience set in a constrained ruleset that is fed to our true selves... our true consciousness so that we may learn and grow.

Is humanity ready to come to grips with that? Not as long as we cling to outdated belief systems, but slowly, we're getting there. And when we do, there will be, pardon the pun, a quantum shift in our perceptions and understandings. And then, ladies and gentleman, we'll truly begin to evolve.

We create our reality. We imagined ourselves into existence. We are god, and to our source we shall return.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,321,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
For Athiests, Agnostics & Theists & anyone else...

If you deny, aren't sure, or believe in something, isn't it important to define what that something is?


For God's sake, ...who or what is God... TO YOU?

I'm not interested in dictionary or religious definitions.
I'm interested in YOUR definition of God/spirituality.
I personally do not think you can completely define something that is individual to each person.

Sure, you can ask multiple people their definition of god, their religion or spiritual practices. Just one problem, most people don't have contrast of other religions, or spiritual practices. Most religious views are cookie cutter on the surface and that is what they express to others. They neglect to express what it really means to them, because they only know their religion and other religions only by what their religion says about them.
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