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Old 07-07-2011, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 999,129 times
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Since most atheists take sciences word for everything and deny any possibility of anything spiritual existing, most not all.

Since they are always saying it was human nature to believe in gods and such and that we are evolving.

Now I want them to explain human nature, define it, label it, classify human nature, while providing empirical proof of these claims.

Humans are just animals, since all animals have natural instincts and abilities, I want to know what we humans are natural at?

Not denying we are animals or that we have a specific nature. I just want to see what you all think is our basic human nature.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:55 AM
 
5,436 posts, read 2,042,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Since most atheists take sciences word for everything
That is as far as I got before realising you were wrong already.

The whole area of science is built on not taking anyones word for anything. That is what peer review actually means/is. It is the practice of taking the word of someone else and doing everything BUT taking their word for it.... in other words doing everything possible to show the person who said the words was wrong.

The process of peer review is not to prove other scientists right, it is to do your damndest to filter out all that was wrong, and what gets published is what was left after that.... which the rest of the scientific community then go on to do their damndest to prove wrong.

It would be advisable therefore to correct your view of what science is and reformulate your entire "challenge" in that light in order to make it accurate enough to be worth taking up said challenge.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,762,792 times
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Guess that knocks that on the head. Bravo Nozz!
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 1,565,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
......

Now I want them to explain human nature, define it, label it, classify human nature, while providing empirical proof of these claims.

Humans are just animals, since all animals have natural instincts and abilities, I want to know what we humans are natural at?
......


My view is that there are essentially two ways to define the contents for what human nature IS at the certain distinct empirical proof for how people DO. One way is how we have connected over each others' justification for the DOING (communication); the other way is realizing rationally what we are DOING for each other in the world (LOVE and SEX). Otherwise we are pretending that there is this entity, MAN, which labeled for a conquest of sorts on the national scale makes that the prescribed wealth and government law work for the MYTH of prosperity.


This idea has been worked on in vain since the Vietnam War hoping that our Faith will not overwhelm us.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
11,334 posts, read 10,156,143 times
Reputation: 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Since most atheists take sciences word for everything and deny any possibility of anything spiritual existing, most not all.

Since they are always saying it was human nature to believe in gods and such and that we are evolving.

Now I want them to explain human nature, define it, label it, classify human nature, while providing empirical proof of these claims.

Humans are just animals, since all animals have natural instincts and abilities, I want to know what we humans are natural at?

Not denying we are animals or that we have a specific nature. I just want to see what you all think is our basic human nature.
I went through 5 years of college anthropology courses to cover all that, and you want it in few sentences on a web forum?!

Anyways, here's a very brief summary:

Humans are apes. We exist to live and in the process make more of us. This is our natural condition:



Modern humans are naturally a hunter/gatherer species, well evolved to live by foraging.

Hyenas evolved strong jaws, sense of smell and stamina, vultures evolved keen eyesight and a sense of smell; humans evolved a big brain along with dexterous hands and use the environment itself instead of just our physical bodies to solve the problems of survival, i.e. by toolmaking.

Just about everything we make, from stone spear points, loincloths and grass huts to skyscrapers and space shuttles are tools; the only difference is their level of complexity.

So our basic nature is to live in small, mobile groups, make tools to meet our needs, be loyal to our immediate group and suspicious (if not outright hostile) to outsiders. Above all, we seek to preserve and grow our own group with the materials and the naturally evolved advantages we possess (Just like ALL life on this planet, BTW.)

A side effect of all the toolmaking brainpower is the annoying tendency to think we are embryonic supernatural beings who are not entirely subject to the natural environment. This creates the human specific need for deeper culture, art, religion, symbolism, ect, which leads to the even more frustrating need to ask silly questions like: "WTF do I exist?" or "I wonder what's over that hill, river, ocean, solar system, ect", or "I wonder what happens when I smash an atom", among other things.

Either that or we are all plugged into a nifty simulation built by beings who have already gone through the above process and wanted something to do. I can't figure out which.

Last edited by Chango; 07-07-2011 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:45 AM
 
1,901 posts, read 1,113,222 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Since most atheists take sciences word for everything and deny any possibility of anything spiritual existing, most not all.

Since they are always saying it was human nature to believe in gods and such and that we are evolving.

Now I want them to explain human nature, define it, label it, classify human nature, while providing empirical proof of these claims.

Humans are just animals, since all animals have natural instincts and abilities, I want to know what we humans are natural at?

Not denying we are animals or that we have a specific nature. I just want to see what you all think is our basic human nature.
Eating, pooping and sex.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 999,129 times
Reputation: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I went through 5 years of college anthropology courses to cover all that, and you want it in few sentences on a web forum?!

Anyways, here's a very brief summary:

Humans are apes. We exist to live and in the process make more of us. This is our natural condition:



Modern humans are naturally a hunter/gatherer species, well evolved to live by foraging.

Hyenas evolved strong jaws, sense of smell and stamina, vultures evolved keen eyesight and a sense of smell; humans evolved a big brain along with dexterous hands and use the environment itself instead of just our physical bodies to solve the problems of survival, i.e. by toolmaking.

Just about everything we make, from stone spear points, loincloths and grass huts to skyscrapers and space shuttles are tools; the only difference is their level of complexity.

So our basic nature is to live in small, mobile groups, make tools to meet our needs, be loyal to our immediate group and suspicious (if not outright hostile) to outsiders. Above all, we seek to preserve and grow our own group with the materials and the naturally evolved advantages we possess (Just like ALL life on this planet, BTW.)

A side effect of all the toolmaking brainpower is the annoying tendency to think we are embryonic supernatural beings who are not entirely subject to the natural environment. This creates the human specific need for deeper culture, art, religion, symbolism, ect, which leads to the even more frustrating need to ask silly questions like: "WTF do I exist?" or "I wonder what's over that hill, river, ocean, solar system, ect", or "I wonder what happens when I smash an atom", among other things.

Either that or we are all plugged into a nifty simulation built by beings who have already gone through the above process and wanted something to do. I can't figure out which.
I was thinking of taking some anthropology courses. I think you just sealed it. I am going to do it. Thank you. Also, I think the last sentence is more plausible.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 999,129 times
Reputation: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
Eating, pooping and sex.
True and to the point. Thank you. HAHA
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:42 PM
 
1,890 posts, read 4,095,641 times
Reputation: 1079
Isn't this more of challenge to anthropologists? Why atheists? I assume the OP doesn't believe in vampires and dragons. Does that make you qualified to explain human nature? Of course not. One's nonbelief in something that does not exist does not qualify them to explain human nature.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:53 PM
 
16,310 posts, read 14,822,211 times
Reputation: 7988
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Since most atheists take sciences word for everything and deny any possibility of anything spiritual existing, most not all.
No, science has been wrong, but the wonderful thing about science is that it is self correcting. Science is always testing its findings, and if an incorrect conclusion has been made in the past, it is then rejected, and the more accurate conclusion replaces it.

Religion, not so much, the superstitions of people that lived in the time that everyone believed the world was flat, and the earth was the center of the universe, etc., it is not to be questioned, and if questioned, one is quickly attacked for even daring to question the superstition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Since they are always saying it was human nature to believe in gods and such and that we are evolving.

Now I want them to explain human nature, define it, label it, classify human nature, while providing empirical proof of these claims.

Humans are just animals, since all animals have natural instincts and abilities, I want to know what we humans are natural at?

Not denying we are animals or that we have a specific nature. I just want to see what you all think is our basic human nature.
I love the "they" reference Really

No, believing in gods is a learned superstition, it is not natural at all. Food, shelter, sex, are human nature.
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