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We can prove there's no largest prime number. Try doing the same for god being eternal.
But it's not more childish than asking how the universe could come from nothing - both have a load of assumptions not generally accepted by the person being asked the question. If it's childish to question assumptions in one case, it's bad in all cases.
Keep that in mind for when your assumptions are questioned.
Think about it, how cynical are you to look at the perfection of this environment
What do you mean by "perfection". There is nothing "perfect" about it. We evolved to fit into it, not it to us. Imagine a puddle coming alive and thinking "wow this hole was made perfectly to fit my exact shape" and you will understand your error.... because in fact the puddle formed to fit the hole, not the other way.
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Originally Posted by abf5000
The real problem with these people is that the vast majority have never taken the time to read the bible
False. Many of us have infact read it at length. Some of us are running "Read The Bible (http://www.atheist.ie/campaigns/read-the-bible-campaign/ - broken link)" campaigns. And many famous atheists are ex theists and even ministers... such as Dan Barker...
Not to mention recent studies have shown atheists know the bible and other things better than the theists themselves.
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Originally Posted by abf5000
Something can't come from nothing though.
Actually it appears it can, and happens all the time. However why are you assuming nothing is the default?
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Originally Posted by abf5000
Also, why do they gather in groups and at meetings? So, you guys get together because of your shared lack of belief? Is that really a good reason to gather?
It is a great reason to gather yes. Michael Nugent covered exactly why in 3-4 minutes here though around 1:44 is where he gets to the bit you want to know about.
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Originally Posted by abf5000
To answer you, I think our creator has always existed in some form as some kind of universal life force outside the known realms of the universe.
Do you see the double negative here at all? You are demanding that atheists explain how something can come from nothing, without explaining why they have to or why you say "nothing" is the default and "something" is what needs to be explained.... yet you entirely skip that requirement for yourself by just declaring that what YOU want to believe is "eternal".
So essentially you are trying to assume one group can not use a given answer, but you can.
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Originally Posted by abf5000
I brought up the Bible because I think there is some good material and lessons in there even if you take out the God parts.
Then do so! Why wrap those "good parts" up in lies, unsubstantiated claims about sky fairies, and worse? Why not distill the good parts and promote them. There is no reason on offer to think there IS a god, so why not dismiss that notion and work with the stuff we know is true, good, and works.
False. Many of us have infact read it at length. Some of us are running "Read The Bible (http://www.atheist.ie/campaigns/read-the-bible-campaign/ - broken link)" campaigns. And many famous atheists are ex theists and even ministers... such as Dan Barker...
Not to mention recent studies have shown atheists know the bible and other things better than the theists themselves.
No, it's a little more than a rote memory competition. You've missed the message of the Word and are congratulating yourself for being so clever. Cleverness is not going to cut with Scripture. Quickly, open your Bible to 1 Corinthians 13:2. It explains what you so sorely lack.
No, it's a little more than a rote memory competition. You've missed the message of the Word and are congratulating yourself for being so clever. Cleverness is not going to cut with Scripture. Quickly, open your Bible to 1 Corinthians 13:2. It explains what you so sorely lack.
I am not aware of any message I have missed. Feel free to adumbrate one for me.
Just because I find many of the messages in the bible to be useless and/or unsubstantiated does not mean I have missed the message. Not agreeing with a message is not synonymous with having missed it, much as you may want it to be.
I am not aware of any message I have missed. Feel free to adumbrate one for me.
Just because I find many of the messages in the bible to be useless and/or unsubstantiated does not mean I have missed the message. Not agreeing with a message is not synonymous with having missed it, much as you may want it to be.
I cant, you havent given me your "word" for it. You have just declared I have missed messages and run away, without telling me which message, how I missed it, and what it is that I have missed.
Just typing "You have missed the message" and running off is very easy to do. I can type the same line about you and run away too if I wanted. Saying nothing is easy to do.
However if you want to actually back up what you say that takes some effort, so if you think there is some message in the bible I have missed then simply tell me which one and back up your statements.
No, it's a little more than a rote memory competition. You've missed the message of the Word and are congratulating yourself for being so clever. Cleverness is not going to cut with Scripture. Quickly, open your Bible to 1 Corinthians 13:2. It explains what you so sorely lack.
1 Corinthians 13:2 (NIV)
"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."
My Strong's Concordance is in another state at present so I can't consult it, but I'm pretty sure "love" here is from the Greek "agape", which means unconditional or selfless love. Many Christians have written that it means specifically divine love, but this is not accurate.
This begs the question: how do you know Noz or anyone here lacks love? I'd be willing to guess we all feel unconditional love toward someone in our lives - kids, parents, spouse, siblings, cousins, etc.
I cant, you havent given me your "word" for it. You have just declared I have missed messages and run away, without telling me which message, how I missed it, and what it is that I have missed.
Just typing "You have missed the message" and running off is very easy to do. I can type the same line about you and run away too if I wanted. Saying nothing is easy to do.
However if you want to actually back up what you say that takes some effort, so if you think there is some message in the bible I have missed then simply tell me which one and back up your statements.
I would back up I say, but you'd just dismiss whatever I come up with. I really don't like it when people do that. It makes me feel like I'm being played like a broken toy.
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