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The founders clearly set up a secular form of government. They did not give birth to the mythical Christian theocracy flashing around the rusty synapses of delusion enraptured American fundamentalists/enemies of free thought, science, and thus reality itself. See post #136; thereby your post is debunked.
Yeah, rrrrrrright...and Bernie Madoff clearly set up an investment firm!
Just like Madoff, they "fronted"...presented as one thing (even in their "documents")...while they ACTUALLY did another.
It is KNOWN HISTORY that in the early days of the Republic, Christian church services were held in virtually every Federal building in D.C...the government, in essence, became a church! Thomas Jefferson attended services in the House of Representatives chamber. He decided the music needed more energy, so he ordered the Marine Band to play each Sunday. All paid for with govt. funds, of course.
Jefferson even sent missionaries to the Indian tribes...and provided government money to build churches...all so, according to him, the Native Americans might enjoy "more fullness of life".
Don't believe me?...do some research.
During Jeffersons term as President he started three school systems in D.C. and Virginia---The required texts for each school system were the Bible, Watt’s book of hymns, and a reading primer. Because, according to him, "Those books are the basis of a good education".
Again, do some research...you'll see.
Those guys back then took the completely NON-CHRISTIAN country they had come to (the Natives were NOT Christian)...and SATURATED it with Christianity. And they used the power and money of the government they had put together to do it.
They did such a good job at so completely turning the existing Non-Christian Nation into a Christian Nation...200 years later IT STILL IS. BECAUSE OF THEM...they "kicked it off"! How can anyone not see that!
If it wasn't them...I'd sure like someone to give me some other good evidence as to who it really was that changed things from NonChristian to Christian in this country.
For some reason this really bothers you and others...so much so, you try to pretend it didn't actually go down that way, and it was all something different. Kinda like people that deny the Holocaust happened.
I'm sorry...but the way it went down...is the way it went down--And denial doesn't change it.
The founders clearly set up a secular form of government. They did not give birth to the mythical Christian theocracy flashing around the rusty synapses of delusion enraptured American fundamentalists/enemies of free thought, science, and thus reality itself. See post #136; thereby your post is debunked.
Nobody has claimed the country was set up as a 'Christian theocracy.' That phrase is your own little strawman that you can easily debunk. It's as clear that we weren't a Christian theocracy as it is that we were Christian in culture, social norms, civic outlook, many not all legal standards, and the General belief that a divine hand was part of the nation's fabric. Historical Fact.
Just like the Bible Fundies that "don't agree" with evolution...just because they "don't agree", "don't buy", or whatever...doesn't change the REALITY of evolution....whether they "get it" or not.
Same with this being a "Christian Nation" (since the hostile take-over by the Europeans)...one doesn't have to "agree", "buy", or "get" that...but, that doesn't change the REALITY of it.
REALITY is what counts!...whether you "agree", "buy", or "get" it, is inconsequential to WHAT IS!
And WHAT IS is a nation with no established religion.
Nobody has claimed the country was set up as a 'Christian theocracy.' That phrase is your own little strawman that you can easily debunk. It's as clear that we weren't a Christian theocracy as it is that we were Christian in culture, social norms, civic outlook, many not all legal standards, and the General belief that a divine hand was part of the nation's fabric. Historical Fact.
Many American Christians, including some in this thread, talk as if they truly believe that the Ten Commandments are actually written into the Constitution itself, and can't for the life of them comprehend that the U.S. government is secular in nature. This fact just sails right over their heads.
Many American fundamentalists, including some in this thread, talk as if they truly believe that the Ten Commandments are actually written into the Constitution itself, and can't for the life of them comprehend that the U.S. government is secular in nature. This fact just sails right over their heads.
Just my opinion, to me it seems that beginning in the 1800s American Christians began incorporating the US Constitution into Christianity,
End result America and Christianity became entwined.
Perhaps it may not be so much that the US is a Christian Nation, but rather Christianity in America has become an American Religion.
Nobody has claimed the country was set up as a 'Christian theocracy.'
Should be more like... nobody should be claiming that the USA was founded on Christianity much less push the idea that it should continue to use Christianity as the basis of governance. What do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
Perhaps it may not be so much that the US is a Christian Nation, but rather Christianity in America has become an American Religion.
Just like the Bible Fundies that "don't agree" with evolution...just because they "don't agree", "don't buy", or whatever...doesn't change the REALITY of evolution....whether they "get it" or not.
Same with this being a "Christian Nation" (since the hostile take-over by the Europeans)...one doesn't have to "agree", "buy", or "get" that...but, that doesn't change the REALITY of it.
REALITY is what counts!...whether you "agree", "buy", or "get" it, is inconsequential to WHAT IS!
Why is it that you insist that YOUR reality counts, but the reality recognized by Zekester or MightyQueen doesn't.
I GET what you are saying. I disagree with it. You say it is what it is. I say it isn't. My opinion counts just as much as yours. The REALITY you speak of does not exist.
"The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institution of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." (From The Rights of Colonists, 1772) Samuel Adams
"The Bible carries with it the history of the creation, the fall and redemption of man, and discloses to him, in the infant born at Bethlehem, the Legislator and Savior of the world." John Quincy Adams
Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation ofthe Redeemer's mission upon earth?
That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity and gave to the world the first irrevocable pledge of the fulfillment of the prophecies announced directly from Heaven at the birth of the Saviour and predicted by the greatest of the Hebrew prophets 600 years before." John Quincy Adams
From the day of the Declaration...they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct." John Quincy Adams
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. John Quincy Adams
"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not only of all free government, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society." John Adams
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand." John Adams
"The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but the God of Israel is He that giveth strength and power unto His people. Trust in Him at all times, ye people, pour out your hearts before him; God is a refuge for us." Abigail Adams
"A patriot without religion in my estimation is as great a paradox as an honest Man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations bind, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society?....The Scriptures tell us "righteousness exalteth a Nation." Abigail Adams
John Jay.....
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
This thread is debunked.
So which one of those Christians wasn't secular?
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So which one of those Christians wasn't secular?
