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Old 07-28-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 3,120,468 times
Reputation: 865

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPaul View Post
There were no muslims in the period of the life of Jesus

No, there weren't. You got me there.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:21 PM
 
439 posts, read 556,255 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
First, let me say Assalamu alaikum!

Waa alaikum Assalamu


Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Why did they go to all that trouble to secretly rescue Jesus from dying on the cross? ?


ALLAH is the one who rescued Jesus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Were Muslims of that time not angered by Jesus' claims of godhood?

Jesus never said he is a god.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 3,120,468 times
Reputation: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
ALLAH is the one who rescued Jesus
Why did ALLAH do that?


Quote:
Jesus never said he is a god.
I see.

I am a devout Christian but I'm not interested in arguing religion with you. I'm just interested in learning about what Muslims think and believe. Jesus is someone Muslims and Christians have in common and that pleases me. I am interested in learning more about the Muslim Jesus.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:46 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,803,318 times
Reputation: 2109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post

Oh please! Not again! You have been debunked on this time and time again yet you keep coming back with the same old trash. Tacitus also mentions Hurcules and more times than he (allegedly) mentioned Jesus. Do you believe him regarding Hercules?
Well, that explains a lot. I should have known my posts were written in vain. I must have missed his previous posts about Tacitus. Lesson learned.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:53 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,213,605 times
Reputation: 1798
It is funny how xians and muslims try and validate (argue) their myths based on one equally mythical figure. Very entertaining.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,857,175 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Jesus had no human father.
Then he couldn't have been from the line of David line as you claim could he because titles are passed down through the father. If he had no father he couldn't have been the Messiah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescityleon View Post
all we have is the historical record, the testament of Jews a gentiles who followed him.
You keep referring to these "historical records" but all you ever produce is the tired old Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius et al nonsense that has been debunked too many times to mention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
Well, that explains a lot. I should have known my posts were written in vain. I must have missed his previous posts about Tacitus. Lesson learned.
It's the only straws they have left. Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny, Phlegon, Thallus, Ignatius, Valentinus...they push them out in their wheelchairs every day and parade them around whilst the poor chaps cry to be left in peace. No matter how many times you show them just how wrong they are, they will ignore it, until someone else asks them for evidence of their man-god then off they run again to wheel out the old guys in a parade of redundant nonsense.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:42 PM
 
439 posts, read 556,255 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Why did ALLAH do that?



every one of us will die in a certain time and he would not increase or decrease even one second, and the death time of prophet Jesus peace be upon him did not come yet until now and Jesus still a life up in heaven and he will descend one day to kill the anti Christ and do other tasks then he will die.

ALLAH does whatever he wanted and sometimes we think that we know the wisdom behind it and sometimes we do not know

For example why ALLAH created the fly or mosquitoes
Are they really necessary for life?
And He is the Forgiving, the Loving,
Lord of the Throne of Glory,
Doer of what He will. The Noble Quran.

********************************************
He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned. . The Noble Quran

************************************************** ********
And every nation hath its term, and when its term cometh, they cannot put it off an hour nor yet advance (it). The Noble Quran
************************************************** ************************************************** *******
And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'ÃŽsa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'ÃŽsa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, 'ÃŽsa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection . Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute. " The Noble Quran.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
I see.

I am a devout Christian but I'm not interested in arguing religion with you. I'm just interested in learning about what Muslims think and believe. Jesus is someone Muslims and Christians have in common and that pleases me. I am interested in learning more about the Muslim Jesus.

here are some highlight of his story from Quran and muslims history books
for the full story click here

Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh)





....so he asked Mary: "Can a tree come to grow without a seed?" She said: "Yes, the one which Allah created for the first time." He asked her again: "Is it possible to bear a child without a male partner?" She said: "Yes, Allah, created Adam without male or female!".....


.....She put her finger to her lips and pointed to the child. They asked: "How can we speak to a newborn baby?" To their total amazement, the child began to speak clearly: "I am .....

.......The Jewish priests felt this child Jesus was dangerous, for they felt that the people would turn their worship to Allah the Almighty Alone, displacing the existing Jewish tenets. Consequently, they would lose their authority over the people. Therefore, they kept the miracle of Jesus's speech in infancy as a secret and accused Mary of a great misdeed......




.....On the same night, the revelation descended upon Jesus (pbuh). Allah the Exalted commanded him to begin his call to the children of Israel. To Jesus....


.....
Jesus continued to invite people to worship the Only Lord, Who is without partner, just as he invited them to purify the heart and soul.
His teaching annoyed the priests, for every word of Jesus was a threat to them and their position, exposing their misdeeds.
The Roman occupiers had, at first, no intention of being involved in this religious discord of the Jews because it was an internal affair, and they saw that this dispute would distract the Jews from the question of the occupation.
However, the priests started to plot against Jesus. They wanted to embarrass him and to prove that he.....


......This woman is an adulteress." Jesus looked at the woman and then at the priests. He knew that they were more sinful than she. They agreed that she should be killed according to Mosaic Law, and they understood that if he was going to apply Mosaic Law, he would be destroying his own rules of forgiveness and mercy.
Jesus understood their plan. He smiled and assented: "Whoever among you is sinless can stone her." His voice rose in the middle of the Temple, making a new law on adultery, for the sinless to judge sin. There was none eligible; no mortal can judge sin, only Allah the Most Merciful.
As Jesus left the temple, the woman followed him. She took out a bottle of perfume from her garments, knelt before his feet and washed them with perfume and tears, and then dried his feet with her hair. Jesus turned to the woman and told her to stand up, adding: "O Lord, forgive her sins." He let the priests understand that those who call people to Almighty Allah are not executioners. His call was based on mercy for the people, the aim of all divine calls.
Jesus continued to pray to Allah for mercy on his people and to teach his people to have mercy on one another and to believe in Allah.......


.......When the Jews saw this they said: "You only resurrect those who have died recently; perhaps they only fainted." They asked him to bring back to life Sam the Ibn Noah.
When he asked them to show him his grave, the people accompanied him there. Jesus invoked Allah the Exalted to bring him back to life and behold, Sam the Ibn Noah came out from the grave gray-haired. Jesus asked: "how did you get gray hair, when there was no aging in your time?" He answered: "O Spirit of Allah, I thought that the Day of Resurrection had come; from the fear of that day my hair turned gray."......




......they asked Jesus to bring food from heaven to break their fast. Jesus prayed to Allah after his disciples had doubted Allah's power. The great table cam down between two clouds, one above and one below, while the people watched. Jesus said: "O Lord, make it a mercy and not a cause of distress." So it fell between Jesus's hands, covered with a napkin.
Jesus suddenly prostrated and his disciples with him. They sensed a fragrance, which they had never smelled before. Jesus said: "The one who is the most devout and most righteous may uncover the table, that we might eat of it to thank Allah for it." They said: "O Spirit of Allah, you are the most deserving."..........


.....
The Sanhedrin, the highest judicial and ecclesiastical council of the Jews, began to meet to plot against Jesus. The plan took a new turn. When the Jews failed to stop Jesus' s call, they decided to kill him. The chief priests held secret meetings to agree on the best way of getting rid of Jesus. While they were in such a meeting, one of the twelve apostles of Jesus, Judas Iscariot, went to them and asked: "What will you give me if I deliver him to you?".....

......The priests had no authority to pass the death sentence at that time, so they convinced the Roman governor that Jesus was plotting against the security of the Roman Empire and urged him to take immediate action against him. The governor ordered that Jesus be arrested......

for the full story click here
Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh)
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,430 posts, read 2,767,470 times
Reputation: 336
Default Yes, I see you point

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
It is funny how xians and muslims try and validate (argue) their myths based on one equally mythical figure. Very entertaining.
..cker you are rude
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,430 posts, read 2,767,470 times
Reputation: 336
Default What year was this written?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
every one of us will die in a certain time and he would not increase or decrease even one second, and the death time of prophet Jesus peace be upon him did not come yet until now and Jesus still a life up in heaven and he will descend one day to kill the anti Christ and do other tasks then he will die.

ALLAH does whatever he wanted and sometimes we think that we know the wisdom behind it and sometimes we do not know

For example why ALLAH created the fly or mosquitoes
Are they really necessary for life?
And He is the Forgiving, the Loving,
Lord of the Throne of Glory,
Doer of what He will. The Noble Quran.

********************************************
He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned. . The Noble Quran

************************************************** ********
And every nation hath its term, and when its term cometh, they cannot put it off an hour nor yet advance (it). The Noble Quran
************************************************** ************************************************** *******
And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'ÃŽsa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'ÃŽsa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, 'ÃŽsa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection . Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute. " The Noble Quran.

here are some highlight of his story from Quran and muslims history books
for the full story click here

Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh)





....so he asked Mary: "Can a tree come to grow without a seed?" She said: "Yes, the one which Allah created for the first time." He asked her again: "Is it possible to bear a child without a male partner?" She said: "Yes, Allah, created Adam without male or female!".....


.....She put her finger to her lips and pointed to the child. They asked: "How can we speak to a newborn baby?" To their total amazement, the child began to speak clearly: "I am .....

.......The Jewish priests felt this child Jesus was dangerous, for they felt that the people would turn their worship to Allah the Almighty Alone, displacing the existing Jewish tenets. Consequently, they would lose their authority over the people. Therefore, they kept the miracle of Jesus's speech in infancy as a secret and accused Mary of a great misdeed......




.....On the same night, the revelation descended upon Jesus (pbuh). Allah the Exalted commanded him to begin his call to the children of Israel. To Jesus....


.....
Jesus continued to invite people to worship the Only Lord, Who is without partner, just as he invited them to purify the heart and soul.
His teaching annoyed the priests, for every word of Jesus was a threat to them and their position, exposing their misdeeds.
The Roman occupiers had, at first, no intention of being involved in this religious discord of the Jews because it was an internal affair, and they saw that this dispute would distract the Jews from the question of the occupation.
However, the priests started to plot against Jesus. They wanted to embarrass him and to prove that he.....


......This woman is an adulteress." Jesus looked at the woman and then at the priests. He knew that they were more sinful than she. They agreed that she should be killed according to Mosaic Law, and they understood that if he was going to apply Mosaic Law, he would be destroying his own rules of forgiveness and mercy.
Jesus understood their plan. He smiled and assented: "Whoever among you is sinless can stone her." His voice rose in the middle of the Temple, making a new law on adultery, for the sinless to judge sin. There was none eligible; no mortal can judge sin, only Allah the Most Merciful.
As Jesus left the temple, the woman followed him. She took out a bottle of perfume from her garments, knelt before his feet and washed them with perfume and tears, and then dried his feet with her hair. Jesus turned to the woman and told her to stand up, adding: "O Lord, forgive her sins." He let the priests understand that those who call people to Almighty Allah are not executioners. His call was based on mercy for the people, the aim of all divine calls.
Jesus continued to pray to Allah for mercy on his people and to teach his people to have mercy on one another and to believe in Allah.......


.......When the Jews saw this they said: "You only resurrect those who have died recently; perhaps they only fainted." They asked him to bring back to life Sam the Ibn Noah.
When he asked them to show him his grave, the people accompanied him there. Jesus invoked Allah the Exalted to bring him back to life and behold, Sam the Ibn Noah came out from the grave gray-haired. Jesus asked: "how did you get gray hair, when there was no aging in your time?" He answered: "O Spirit of Allah, I thought that the Day of Resurrection had come; from the fear of that day my hair turned gray."......




......they asked Jesus to bring food from heaven to break their fast. Jesus prayed to Allah after his disciples had doubted Allah's power. The great table cam down between two clouds, one above and one below, while the people watched. Jesus said: "O Lord, make it a mercy and not a cause of distress." So it fell between Jesus's hands, covered with a napkin.
Jesus suddenly prostrated and his disciples with him. They sensed a fragrance, which they had never smelled before. Jesus said: "The one who is the most devout and most righteous may uncover the table, that we might eat of it to thank Allah for it." They said: "O Spirit of Allah, you are the most deserving."..........


.....
The Sanhedrin, the highest judicial and ecclesiastical council of the Jews, began to meet to plot against Jesus. The plan took a new turn. When the Jews failed to stop Jesus' s call, they decided to kill him. The chief priests held secret meetings to agree on the best way of getting rid of Jesus. While they were in such a meeting, one of the twelve apostles of Jesus, Judas Iscariot, went to them and asked: "What will you give me if I deliver him to you?".....

......The priests had no authority to pass the death sentence at that time, so they convinced the Roman governor that Jesus was plotting against the security of the Roman Empire and urged him to take immediate action against him. The governor ordered that Jesus be arrested......

for the full story click here
Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh)
.............there are many story variations about many Historic figures............every man and woman, girl and boy can read and decide what they believe in a free country.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,531 posts, read 37,136,097 times
Reputation: 13999
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescityleon View Post
..cker you are rude
No, he's not rude, he is honestly telling you things you would rather not hear. I have often heard it said that reason is faith's worst enemy, but I'm beginning to think truth is doing a lot more damage to religion than reason is.

There is not one iota of VALID evidence for Jesus existence...That is the truth that causes you to firmly insert your fingers in your ears while you recite ....LA LA LA LA LA LA.
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