Yeshua, Yahweh, Yahshua?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Originally Posted by whoppers

Another interesting tidbit is how the name of Yahweh was used in some of the Dead Sea Scrolls by the Qumran community. The reverence for not speaking the name is reflected in one of the Community Rules:

"If any man has uttered the [Most] Venerable Name even though frivolously, or as a result of shock or for any other reason whatever, while reading the Book or blessing, he shall be dismissed and shall return to the Council of the Community no more."
The Community Rule - (Vermes translation, brackets represent "Hypothetical but likely reconstructions" as stated in preface)

This isn't that surprising, considering the date of composition (150 BC+) and the Zoroastic influences that had made their way into both mainstream Judaism, and the sectarian Judaism of the Qumran sect.

What is even more interesting is how the Essenes used the Paleo-Hebrew letters to write out YHWH in their non-Biblical writings, even though the scrolls were primarily written using the sqare script we are more familiar with today. That's an interesting solution to the problem they saw with using the name Yahweh. In the copies of works from the Tanakh, however, YHWH is written out in the same script as the surrounding text - the square script. They wanted to keep that aura of authenticity, I suppose, when dealing with the pre-Hellenistic Hebrew works - including the Torah. These two instances are probably not a hard rule, but it is the majority trend in the Dead Sea Scrolls in the works written in Hebrew.
The Ancient Library of Qumran and Modern Biblical Studies (Frank Moore Cross, Jr., 1958) is still an excellent resource for some of the peculiar features of the particular 'Qumran Hebrew' used in most of the scrolls, and Geza Vermes' translation The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English (1962) is still a very accessible resource for those researching how the tetragrammaton evolved and fell out of favor.

This is just another window into the fate of Yahweh's name among his people, and how it's come down to us now in it's various other renderings.
Thankfully, a resurgence in using the original name has become much more normative in modern translations and scholarly works - though I hear that two many people objected to it's usage in the Jerusalem Bible (and it's updated version), and it's going to be returned to the familiar the LORD. A shame. Thankfully, we still have many translations that preserve the tetragrammaton in the Tanakh as it was originally used, though some take a half-way measure and use YHWH, rather than writing it out fully. You can see that as either:
a) religious sensitivity to certain groups, or
b) an admission that the vocalization is still not 100% certain.
I think Yahweh is just fine, personally.

If you believe that the Name Yahweh is fine, then why do you object to my use of His Name?

[whoppers]

Originally Posted by Frank4YAHWEH

If you believe that the Name Yahweh is fine, then why do you object to my use of His Name?

I don't! I said that I admire your use of the name.

My problem is with inserting the name into the Greek New Testament - where it never occurs.
My problem is with claiming that the 1st century Christians would have used the name - they would not have. It's clear that the Name had fallen out of use among observant Jews, and by extension - Christians.

So again - I think your use of the Name is fantastic! As long as you don't try to do what the Jehovah's Witnesses do, and insert it where it never was: the Greek New Testament.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Originally Posted by whoppers

I don't! I said that I admire your use of the name.

My problem is with inserting the name into the Greek New Testament - where it never occurs.
My problem is with claiming that the 1st century Christians would have used the name - they would not have. It's clear that the Name had fallen out of use among observant Jews, and by extension - Christians.

So again - I think your use of the Name is fantastic! As long as you don't try to do what the Jehovah's Witnesses do, and insert it where it never was: the Greek New Testament.

Well, I do not understand why you would have a problem with me using our Hevenly Father and Creator's Name in the so-called "Greek New Testament". Is there a rule on this forum against using our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name in the so-called "Greek New Testament"? Are you the moderator of what is inserted in the so-called "Greek New Testament"? Has Father Yahweh commanded that we not use His Name is certain instances? I DON'T THINK SO!

I have never "... [claimed] that the 1st century Christians would have used the name ...". I also believe "... that the Name had fallen out of use among observant Jews, and by extension - Christians." It is not my fault that the Jews and Christians or those who compiled the so-called "Greek New Testament" did not give Father Yahweh the esteem that is due unto His Name! I was simply taking it upon myself to restore His Name and give Yahweh the esteem that is due unto His Name out of reverence for His Name (Psalm 29:2, 96:8 & I Chronicles 16:29).

But unto you that revere My Name shall the light of righteousness arise with healing in it's wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall (Malakyah [Malachi] 4:2).

In this sense you do not admire and find my use of His Name fantastic! I believe that our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name Yahweh was used by Yahshua, his disciples (students) and the Apostles (those sent forth). They certainly were not "Christians" or "Jews"! I am certainly not going to avoid the use of his Name simply for your foolishness in believing that I should not use His Name in certain instances. Father Yahweh is my guide, not you! This is to be His Name to ALL genereations including this one and the generation the Apostles lived in.

I will make Your Name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise You for ever and ever Psalm 45:17).

Yahshua said to his and our Father Yahweh Who is in Heaven when he himself was in the world that he had made His Name known unto the men that He had given him from the world.

I have made Your Name known unto the men which You gave me out of the world: Yours they were, and You gave them to me; and they have kept Your word (Yahchanan [John] 17:6).

The Name Yahweh

[whoppers]

Originally Posted by Frank4YAHWEH

Well, I do not understand why you would have a problem with me using our Hevenly Father and Creator's Name in the so-called "Greek New Testament". Is there a rule on this forum against using our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name in the so-called "Greek New Testament"? Are you the moderator of what is inserted in the so-called "Greek New Testament"? Has Father Yahweh commanded that we not use His Name is certain instances? I DON'T THINK SO!

I have never "... [claimed] that the 1st century Christians would have used the name ...". I also believe "... that the Name had fallen out of use among observant Jews, and by extension - Christians." It is not my fault that the Jews and Christians or those who compiled the so-called "Greek New Testament" did not give Father Yahweh the esteem that is due unto His Name! I was simply taking it upon myself to restore His Name and give Yahweh the esteem that is due unto His Name out of reverence for His Name (Psalm 29:2, 96:8 & I Chronicles 16:29).

But unto you that revere My Name shall the light of righteousness arise with healing in it's wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall (Malakyah [Malachi] 4:2).

In this sense you do not admire and find my use of His Name fantastic! I believe that our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name Yahweh was used by Yahshua, his disciples (students) and the Apostles (those sent forth). They certainly were not "Christians" or "Jews"! I am certainly not going to avoid the use of his Name simply for your foolishness in believing that I should not use His Name in certain instances. Father Yahweh is my guide, not you! This is to be His Name to ALL genereations including this one and the generation the Apostles lived in.

I will make Your Name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise You for ever and ever Psalm 45:17).

Yahshua said to his and our Father Yahweh Who is in Heaven when he himself was in the world that he had made His Name known unto the men that He had given him from the world.

I have made Your Name known unto the men which You gave me out of the world: Yours they were, and You gave them to me; and they have kept Your word (Yahchanan [John] 17:6).

The Name Yahweh

Frank, you're starting to talk silly again. From your silence recently, I had rather hoped your Father Yahweh had taken you up to be with Him as a reward for your unblinking faith in your own beliefs and spare us all here on earth.

There's no rule against spouting nonsense - you're right about that. You can claim that Jesus and his pals (disciples) used the term "Yahweh" all you want. But somebody - with more knowledge on the subject than you will ever have - will inevitably disagree with you. Until you show the slightest proficiency in any of the languages involved in your field of BELIEF - be careful of not making statements that are demonstrably false, wrong and bogus. There are also plenty of well-respected reference works on the subject, written by professionals in their field. No offense, but you have trouble with simple grammar and sentence construction - not to mention that awful temper of yours!

Technically, the Psalmist made an error - for his Name certainly was not remembered in all generations: we still are not entirely sure if Yahweh is the correct pronounciation. As for the people praising him for ever and ever - well, we wouldn't be having this conversation if that were the case on both points.

You very clearly claim in your post that you BELIEVE that the "Name Yahweh was used by Yahshua, his disciples (students) and the Apostles". Well, this goes against every single scrap of evidence we have - which is why you can only BELIEVE it, and not prove it. From previous posts, the 'evidence' you have attempted to present has been shoddy, at best. So stop trying to claim "I never said this" and "I never said that". As I said before - until you do some massive editing of your previous posts, your words remain.

It's a shame that the name fell out of use - but it did. Jesus' own words on the cross (as reported in Aramaic) do not even use the name Yahweh - maybe you should check that out..... It's in the Greek New Testament. You know - the one that never uses Yahweh - even on the lips of Jesus himself?

I think I've had enough of your silliness, Frank. I'm just wasting my time answering any of your ill-informed posts. Sorry - I'm just not interested. I'm only interested in trying to stem some of the nonsense being spouted about certain facts of history - whether you believe them or not.

[Miss Blue]

This discussion is closed