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And then it will weed out the false beliefs it replaces those with and then it will weed out that. Maybe. Some of this is a bit "on faith", that through a method humans can overcome their perception limitations or biases, but anyway in none of that does it necessarily get to a fully accurate description of reality or society or good or whatever.
The thing with science as I have often remarked is that it isn't a question of driving out false beliefs with other ideas (which might also turn out to be false) but there is added knowledge. Even since the replacement of the geocentric system, astronomy had never been 'replaced' but knowledge added to. There isn't anything I can think of that has been disproved rather than improved. Can you?
Whereas the Bible has, I'm afraid, been shown to be ever more unreliable and you know I think I have finally cracked the gospels, though that particular bit of fact has to get into the public domain. That interesting video on mistranslation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mpHp...mbedded#at=437
picked up a few points but even that didn't connect the dots.
Quote:
You don't consider the evidence sufficient or inarguable, that isn't the same as it not existing at all. I would almost say if there is no God or supernatural than humans are so unreliable we'll have to wait for aliens to come down to figure out what's really going on.
I always forget to say 'good evidence'. Oh I don't think we need worry. Since all the evidence indicates that we are on our own we can just be content with not being misled about what we can know.
Quote:
Granted there's the idea that humans are only unreliable like that because they're not properly trained in logic and empiricism. That when they are they can show any experience they have as being naturalistic and never divinely influenced. And I guess that's a kind of answer, but I don't think I'd buy it. For one it's speculative. We don't know if those experiences in the past would have all been show to be naturalistic in nature if everyone had been Isaac Asimov or Carl Sagan. For another I think it's pressing logic and empiricism farther then they're designed to go. They're basically tools so it's like trying to make a toolkit be your whole universe. Lastly if I'm going to believe in some method that makes people more reliable as my "One True Faith, no other methods need supplement" I don't see a reason to pick one quite so narrow and unsatisfying.
I am impressed. You are at least listening and while I needn't expect you to agree with or like my worldview, you understand it, which is a lot more than most theists do. I need only repeat that logic and science are only mental tools and are no replacement for emotion and fantasy and speculation say a couple of dozen times and you'll come to see that I am not advocating a world of robots or straw Vulcans. Just not being misled by cults, myth - pedders and witch doctors.
Theists. Does this do anything to your consciousness?
I direct this question more to literalists and fundamentals who read the Bible literally. Others of course are welcome to comment.
Let me point out that I think of the Bible as a book of wisdom that it is a consolidation of many of the older religions of that day and is a good book to help us seek God by analyzing the old myths. If read literally, the reader will miss out on the rather wonderful thinking stimulated by it and miss the purpose that the book was put together point to. I do not disrespect it but have little respect for literal readers for that reason. They end up idol worshiping a book of myths.
It is interesting to note that both of these prominent scholars came from fundamentalist religions before their research, as well as the scholars they quote, changed their overall views.
They, like myself do not want to dissuade the search for God but only want to point out that God may be bigger than the pigeon hole/Bible that theist have put him in. As a religionist, to me, God is big enough to be everyone’s God. Not just a chosen few. Theists should like this notion because then, God, if real, remains now, as in the beginning, master of all and not just master of some.
Regards
DL
Shouldn't you have posted this under "Funny Links" in the CD forum?
Shouldn't you have posted this under "Funny Links" in the CD forum?
No. Bang on topic. Not even a 'nice try'. Friendly (probably hopeless) suggestion. Why not try listening and learning from people with twice the knowledge, twice the reasoning power and three times the integrity rather than trying to score cheap snide points for your faith?
You'd be amazed how polite and friendly and respectful we can be to people who are willing to honestly listen and learn, even if they might not agree with us.
Shouldn't you have posted this under "Funny Links" in the CD forum?
Why is it that believers can only seem to respond to questions with insults and mockery? They're loved by the all-powerful creator of the universe. Why so angry at everything?
* - with the exception of Thomas R - his posts are always well thought out and appreciated
Why is it that believers can only seem to respond to questions with insults and mockery? They're loved by the all-powerful creator of the universe. Why so angry at everything?
* - with the exception of Thomas R - his posts are always well thought out and appreciated
Do you ever look at a posters posting history to get more of an idea of what they are like?
* - with the exception of Thomas R - his posts are always well thought out and appreciated
Uh wow thanks, but I'm sure I've had off days. Also I think "insults and mockery" are pretty common across the field. I'm sure I've done it on occasion and that several atheists here have as well.
I'd say it's not necessarily a sign the person can't make a good argument even if it can be that. I admit I go dismissive and mocking at times because of laziness of one kind or another. If engaging a point is going to seem like way more work than it's likely to be worth than mocking it becomes tempting. Like when they ask you to read some gigantic, poorly edited, Muslim tome or watch an hour-long video for some guy you've barely heard of. The best thing to do would probably be to just ignore it, but sometimes I'm in a mood or whatever.
And maybe some of the Christians here are similar. They're tired or bored, but still want to say something so insults and mockery are just faster/easier. Or it makes the person feel superior. Same with some atheists who do it I imagine. (Boredom, restlessness, a bout of laziness, finding it weirdly humorous or ego-boosting)
No. Bang on topic. Not even a 'nice try'. Friendly (probably hopeless) suggestion. Why not try listening and learning from people with twice the knowledge, twice the reasoning power and three times the integrity rather than trying to score cheap snide points for your faith?
You'd be amazed how polite and friendly and respectful we can be to people who are willing to honestly listen and learn, even if they might not agree with us.
If I could find those kind of people in the A/A support group, I'd be happy to do so. All I can find there are nasty loners who don't respect anyone's opinions save their own, who have yet to give me answers to simple questions that a 5 year old could produce. When you find one, be a good chap, and send him/her my way? I'd love to debate honestyly without cowardice.
Why is it that believers can only seem to respond to questions with insults and mockery? They're loved by the all-powerful creator of the universe. Why so angry at everything?
* - with the exception of Thomas R - his posts are always well thought out and appreciated
This quote may give you a clue.
"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll
Regards
DL
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I always forget to say 'good evidence'. Oh I don't think we need worry. Since all the evidence indicates that we are on our own we can just be content with not being misled about what we can know.
