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God is sovereign. This is all a test. We have choice. God knows what choices we will make in the end. The source of evil is demonic spirits led by what's called the "god of this age"/"prince of this world"/"prince of the power of the aires." The scriptures state we either serve this source of darkness or the sole source of light. El Elyon/Yawhew/Ha Shem/Jehovah in the person of the Messiah Jesus/Yeshua which translated means "Yah saves" or "Yahweh is Salvation."
John 3:18-20
King James Version (KJV)
"18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Guys choose the light.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 KJV
The Jews didn't recognize their Messiah because he came first as a servant when they were expecting a King as the scriptures proclaim. It hasn't happened yet, but the pieces are all falling into place as was proclaimed.
An OT prophesy of the Messianic savior in what's called the "Day of the Lord"/"Day of Christ"
Isaiah 63
1Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
5And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
6And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
7I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
8For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour."
To sum it all up in a nutshell, GOD HAS GIVEN US ALL CHOICES! Now what we do with those choices is up to us
1. Like i said, whos discussing 'personal' business ?
2. Yes on paragraph 2.
3. I alluded to atheism being infused in Secular Humanism .. and im aware of the larger scope of secularisms ideologies.
1- Did I say we're discussing personal business? This is a public forum after all.
3- So you didn't clarify your understanding of secularism. Would you mind trying again?
The most dangerous and heinous form of religion, is the secular one that has the 'dignity and worth' of a person wrapped up in a one celled pond scum protozoa that burped into existence from dead meaningless chemicals by accident (which even world reknown ATHEIST scientists accurately calculate at a 1 in 10^40,000 th probability...yet, anything but the Creator will suffice) . Now, that is the proverbial rainbow ... a license for people to act as they like/talk as they like/and think as they like since there is no moral law Provider . It is the religion for the one who worships entitle-itis who names himself as his own god with the universe revolving around himself.
BAH-low-knee. Morals are a function of society. Morality from God would be universal and inherent. They are, however, most certainly not. Any definition of God is a construct of man. That invented god is a tool used by those within a society to control morals. They write what their god decides is good and evil into their religious texts. As their society evolves, so too does their interpretations of their own moral code. Religious morals are a somewhat effective tool used to control the ignorant masses based on fear of reprimand by some all-powerful supernatural power.
Making a case for the value of religious morality due to its ability to control the ignorant masses does not prove any of the religious definitions for God based on that value.
BAH-low-knee. Morals are a function of society. Morality from God would be universal and inherent. They are, however, most certainly not. Any definition of God is a construct of man. That invented god is a tool used by those within a society to control morals. They write what their god decides is good and evil into their religious texts. As their society evolves, so too does their interpretations of their own moral code. Religious morals are a somewhat effective tool used to control the ignorant masses based on fear of reprimand by some all-powerful supernatural power.
Making a case for the value of religious morality due to its ability to control the ignorant masses does not prove any of the religious definitions for God based on that value.
Absolute moral laws have always existed whether One realizes it or not and whether One wants them or not ; it is simple to show that absolute moral laws exist by looking at how One EXPECTS them to be applied to Oneself in personal and business dealings involving Others. Everyone of us demands that we be treated with absolute moral laws in tact especially honesty, integrity, fairness, equity, and, in their highest forms. Its just that when it comes to our FREEDOM and entitlement, we want absolute moral laws to be optional as to whether we want to APPLY them in our lifestyle choices . So, therein lies the hypocrisy of 'Dont push (your) morality on me' ( yet darn well expecting all Others TREAT the said person in strict accordance to them ). People want their cake and eat it too.
The bottom line is : No one really wants to live in a world where there is no absolute right from wrong (atheistic moral relativism) because it soon leads to a violation of Ones dignity and intrinsic worth and ultimately, anarchy in society. Ergo, no one including the Irreligious should feel their 'freedom' to live anyway they like in the name of entitlement , is being threatened due to absolute moral laws being revisited. In fact, we should be pushing for them since they are the essential compass for a civil society. The problem today is, apathy among the Masses has overrun morality and high ethicals as a Nation...and all that lies ahead is a relentless cesspool of moral degradation to which most could care less about .
Tell that to ALL of our Modern Science Founders who brought you the many conveniences you enjoy which serve to make your life much more enriching .
Oh the irony!!!
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
I would LOVE to. As you should be able to tell, I'm in Dallas area and available practically ANY weekend but the month of October. So, when can I expect?
Seems like he 'overlooked' your offer EG.
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Originally Posted by 007.5
The bottom line is : No one really wants to live in a world where there is no absolute right from wrong (atheistic moral relativism).....
Frightening isn't it folks? I mean...this guy is actually allowed to vote! Worse...probably bringing up children to think like him.
Absolute moral laws have always existed whether One realizes it or not and whether One wants them or not ; it is simple to show that absolute moral laws exist by looking at how One EXPECTS them to be applied to Oneself in personal and business dealings involving Others. Everyone of us demands that we be treated with absolute moral laws in tact especially honesty, integrity, fairness, equity, and, in their highest forms. Its just that when it comes to our FREEDOM and entitlement, we want absolute moral laws to be optional as to whether we want to APPLY them in our lifestyle choices . So, therein lies the hypocrisy of 'Dont push (your) morality on me' ( yet darn well expecting all Others TREAT the said person in strict accordance to them ). People want their cake and eat it too.
The bottom line is : No one really wants to live in a world where there is no absolute right from wrong (atheistic moral relativism) because it soon leads to a violation of Ones dignity and intrinsic worth and ultimately, anarchy in society. Ergo, no one including the Irreligious should feel their 'freedom' to live anyway they like in the name of entitlement , is being threatened due to absolute moral laws being revisited. In fact, we should be pushing for them since they are the essential compass for a civil society. The problem today is, apathy among the Masses has overrun morality and high ethicals as a Nation...and all that lies ahead is a relentless cesspool of moral degradation to which most could care less about .
Surely you realize that the degradation you're ranting about is pretty good evidence against the absolutism, universality and inherency of morality.
1. Youve heard what all before ? What is it you have a problem with ? If youve heard it all before, then why havent you taken the next step ?
2. God created everything good , but not evil . He will one day eradicate all evil and restore to the Earth what Mankind has ruined.
Ok so there's some other creator that God shares the burden of creating the universe with, eh? He didn't create evil, but it exists, so where did it come from?
And again, why's he waiting for more people to start believing when belief is declining, and he's doing nothing to provide any evidence as he did numerous times in the bible?
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3. God is in control of everything, but natural disasters are the result of sin entering a once perfect world ; that isnt Gods fault. Further, he sometimes intervenes on natural disasters, terminally ill patients, and accidents to either prevent them or for good to come out of them .
How is sin not his fault? Did he not create the potential for sin? Did he not create the 'evil tree' in genesis? (metaphorically or literally)
You say he's in control of everything, and does intervene sometimes for good to result? Why sometimes and not others, for example to save innocent young children? He can intervene when no one else could, but it's "not his fault"?
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4. Gods holy nature who cannot just blow off sin, has to be dealt with by a perfect unblemished sacrifice . You and I could never do enough to cover over our sins. It requires perfection .
He has no choice but to require a human sacrifice before he can muster up forgiveness? Then God's not in control of everything. He has little control over himself even.
by the way, it amazes me that you can describe a human sacrifice as "perfect".
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5. God feels the pain of all who suffer , especially at the hands of another...but he will not violate his gift of love in the form of human freewill (nor would any Atheist appreciate it whos Pen blows up in thier face when defaming God on paper) ; it is not encumbant upon God to hit all Sinners in the head with a 2x4 everytime they harm another...but rather, for the Sinner to stop suppressing their God given Moral Conscience on what is right from wrong and to become a Born Again person thru what Christ offers (a changed heart , mind, and motives thru Gods spirit actually entering a persons heart ) ..but people loved thier dark evil deeds rather than coming to the light of Gods forgiveness and escape from the power of Sins control.
Its the Christian Faith that has the best answers for life.
If Your God Created This Perfect World and Everything That Your God Made/Makes Is Perfect, Then Why All the Evil?
What is perfection?
Life and the universe are not here to be a permanent dwelling. Life is a school, and Test. It is made to give each of us an equal opportunity to learn and reach heaven, which is perfect for us. This physical life is perfect as a test and traing time.
Life is a school, and Test. It is made to give each of us an equal opportunity to learn and reach heaven, which is perfect for us.
Actually... given that in all of human history, Judaism/Christianity has never been a majority belief, if your beliefs are true then the purpose of life is subtly different from your portrayal.
If life is a school and a test, then it must have been made to give each of us an equal opportunity to learn and reach hell. Since that is the single most common outcome, it must in fact be the purpose of creation; to condemn as many people as possible to an eternity of gratuitous suffering in a lake of fire.
Actually... given that in all of human history, Judaism/Christianity has never been a majority belief, if your beliefs are true then the purpose of life is subtly different from your portrayal.
If life is a school and a test, then it must have been made to give each of us an equal opportunity to learn and reach hell. Since that is the single most common outcome, it must in fact be the purpose of creation; to condemn as many people as possible to an eternity of gratuitous suffering in a lake of fire.
I see the opposite. There is no reason everybody can not get to heaven. It all comes down to personal choices. None of us will be judged on anything we have not had the chance to learn about, or are not capable of doing
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Surely you realize that the degradation you're ranting about is pretty good evidence against the absolutism, universality and inherency of morality.
