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Old 08-23-2011, 06:20 PM
 
951 posts, read 800,014 times
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Question:

This is the SAME world that your god made, correct? So if your perfect god, created this perfect world and everything that your god made/makes is perfect, then god created an imperfect world filled with evil. Right? Therefore your god is not only imperfect, but also created evil himself...but that's only if you believe that god is an omnipotent being...

My answer:

God did create a perfect world. He also created a super angelic being name Lucifer. Lucifer is as one of cherubs that covered the very throne of God. Putting the scriptures together from Isaiah and Ezekiel we get a glimpse of just how beautiful and how awesome this being was:

"Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

"By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

"Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness..."

Lucifer was in all probability the greatest being next to God Himself that has ever existed at any time. He was perfect in his ways from the day he was created until inquity was found in him. Apparently, his good looks and perfect ways went to his head and his heart was lifted up with vanity and as a result he corrupted his mind which led to rebellion against God.

Here's what happened after his mind took the wrong turn. He decided that he wanted to replace God and become like the most high:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

Apparently, this super brilliant cherub had convinced about a third of God's angels to follow him in an apparent coup to knock God Almighty off his throne in heaven. In the book of Revelation we see a reference to 1/3 of the angels were cast back down to the earth with him.

"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth..."

Stars can symbolize angels in the scriptures. So apparently, Lucifer was ruling on this earth and he convinced 1/3 of the angelic hosts to follow him in an attempt to knock God off His Throne in Heaven and God and His angelic hosts won the battle and cast Lucifer and his angels back down to the earth.

He was no longer Lucifer the light bringer but was now Satan the Devil -- the destroyer.

This occurred before Adam was created.

When Adam and Eve were created they were allowed to be tried by Satan who in the form of a serpent convinced Eve and then Adam to eat of the forbidden fruit that God had commanded them not to eat and thus Satan lied his way back to still keep ruling over the earth. Had Adam and Eve obeyed God and overcame Satan's deception our world would be totally different today. Satan still sits on the throne of this earth and until one were to come along and replace him he still is the god of this world.

Now, Jesus Christ enters this battle for the rulership of the earth. When Satan overcame Adam and caused him to sin and thus Adam and all his offspring are under the sway of this evil being, at that moment we read in the scriptures that it was determined that Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God would have to come down and live a perfect life and not sin and overcome Satan the Devil.

Rev 13:8 ...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So, the battle for the throne of this earth came down to a showdown between Jesus Christ and Satan the Devil. The history of the universe was at stake. If Christ sinned, he failed and the whole plan of Salvation would be ended and the God Being, the Word, that had lived with God the Father from eternity would die and Satan and His demons would be still left ruling over this earth and God Almighty would be left alone to battle this evil being that had turned in rebellion against Him.

After Christ had fasted forty days and forty nights -- 960 hours without food or water -- He was ready to take on Satan:

Satan tried three tricks to get Christ to obey him. Christ shot back three times quoting scripture out of the book of Deuteronomy. Three times Satan failed to overcome Christ. Christ had won the battle. God's plan of salvation for the world and all mankind was intact. Christ snapped a command at Satan and he had to slink away in utter defeat. Christ was in command.

Christ went on to give His life as sacrifice as the Passover Lamb and Saviour to the world and died for all of our sins. He never once sinned.

As for Satan, he is still deceiving and trying to destroy mankind and he knows that time is getting short when Christ is going to come down from Heaven and setup forever the Kingdom of God on this earth. We are currently in between the time of Pentecost and the Feast of Trumpets which pictures the epoch of time we are in relation to God's Plan of Salvation.

God has left Satan as ruler of this earth to try and test all those whom are called to rule with Christ. They have to overcome all his tricks and deceptions to be able to rule with Christ at His return. Satan is a lame duck ruler out to do all the evil he can before he and his angels are bound for a thousand years pictured by the Day of Atonement.

So God DID create a perfect world and a perfect being named Lucifer. But Lucifer rebelled and Adam and Eve failed to overcome him. It finally took a God being to come down and live a perfect life in the flesh to beat this wily Satan and finally bring the utopian environment this world has been longing for so long now...

May God speed the return of Jesus Christ to this earth and remove this evil Satan as quickly as possible and set up the Kingdom of God to rule with the resurrected saints to rule under Christ. The whole creation is groaning for this tremendous event soon to come...

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Again, may God speed that day...

Last edited by tthttf; 08-23-2011 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,120,288 times
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Isaiah 14:12-15 has been shown over and over and over and OVER that is has nothing to do with Satan. It is a taunt by the prophet to the King of Babylon...a human being. You cannot take those four verses out of the context of the entire chapter so that it fits the devil myth. I know you will anyway, so this is for the benefit of those who don't realize this and want to learn.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,904,912 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Isaiah 14:12-15 has been shown over and over and over and OVER that is has nothing to do with Satan. It is a taunt by the prophet to the King of Babylon...a human being. You cannot take those four verses out of the context of the entire chapter so that it fits the devil myth. I know you will anyway, so this is for the benefit of those who don't realize this and want to learn.

He won't see it himself because hes stuck in that philadelphia church of God doctrine, they got him.

There is nowhere in scripture that Satan is called " Lucifer." I would like to see him pull that rabbit verse out of his hat.
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:13 PM
 
951 posts, read 800,014 times
Reputation: 74
The Feast of Trumpets is a little over a month away.

This pictures the return of Jesus Christ to this earth.

www.herbert-armstrong.org/Music%20JESUS%20mp3/13%20With%20the%20Sound%20of%20Trumpets


With the Sound of Trumpets

With the sound of trumpets
announcing from the sky
Jesus is coming
from heaven on high!

See now the pearly gates are opened,
Christ is passing, passing through them;
All the universe is watching as the King,
our Saviour King descends to take His throne!

With the sound of trumpets!
Triumphant is the song!
Jesus is coming
to right every wrong!
Climax of history
awaited so long!

With the sound of trumpets
in regal majesty:
Jesus is coming
triumphant is He!

And in His glorious train are millions
Saints and Angels, heaven’s armies.
O how awesome is the great and grand display
of power invincible of Christ the Lord!

By His very brightness
His enemies are slain!
And all earth’s kingdoms
are now His domain.
Jesus is coming,
He's coming to reign!

With the sound of trumpets,
The sound of mighty trumpets,
With the sound of trumpets,
The King returns to reign!

Last edited by tthttf; 08-23-2011 at 09:53 PM..
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,904,912 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
The Feast of Trumpets is a little over a month away.

This pictures the return of Jesus Christ to this earth.

www.herbert-armstrong.org/Music%20JESUS%20mp3/13%20With%20the%20Sound%20of%20Trumpets

As I suspected, a believer in the doctrines taught by Herbert W. Armstrong, now followed by the Philadelphia church of God. A group believing that they, and they only, are Gods annointed church on earth. Ardent followers of old testement holy days, keepers of the old testement sabbath, and ruthless limiters of Gods Salvation.

As I read your post, I could already see this, this old school mentality. I am just surprised to see one of you posting, because your group does not believe in witnessing.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:43 AM
 
951 posts, read 800,014 times
Reputation: 74
Correction to original post:

"...Satan who in the form of a serpent convinced Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit and then she gave to Adam and he not being deceived ate the forbidden fruit that God had commanded them not to eat..."
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,923,388 times
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I like Satan better than anyone god created, including himself.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,895 posts, read 9,665,267 times
Reputation: 2402
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthttf View Post
Question:This is the SAME world that your god made, correct? So if your perfect god, created this perfect world and everything that your god made/makes is perfect, then god created an imperfect world filled with evil. Right? Therefore your god is not only imperfect, but also created evil himself...but that's only if you believe that god is an omnipotent being...
So you don't believe that this god is omnimax?


Quote:
Lucifer was in all probability the greatest being next to God Himself that has ever existed at any time. He was perfect in his ways from the day he was created until inquity was found in him.
Then he couldn't have been perfect could he. Perfect things do not become imperfect. If they do, they couldn't have been perfect.

Quote:
Apparently, this super brilliant cherub had convinced about a third of God's angels to follow him in an apparent coup to knock God Almighty off his throne in heaven.
Which this god wouldd have known would happen ....if he is omnimax.

Quote:
Satan tried three tricks to get Christ to obey him. Christ shot back three times quoting scripture out of the book of Deuteronomy. Three times Satan failed to overcome Christ. Christ had won the battle. God's plan of salvation for the world and all mankind was intact. Christ snapped a command at Satan and he had to slink away in utter defeat. Christ was in command.
Sheesh! How do you get through your daily life believing tosh like that?

Quote:
Christ went on to give His life as sacrifice as the Passover Lamb and Saviour to the world and died for all of our sins. He never once sinned.
Not even when he was kicking tables around and flailing a whip around in the temple or calling people fools and vipers?

Quote:
God has left Satan as ruler of this earth to try and test all those whom are called to rule with Christ. They have to overcome all his tricks and deceptions to be able to rule with Christ at His return.
Do tell us...what is the point of a 'test' when you know what the outcome is?

Quote:
It finally took a God being to come down and live a perfect life in the flesh to beat this wily Satan and finally bring the utopian environment this world has been longing for so long now...
So let us just recap on the story. An all-powerful, all-knowing creator of the universe sits on his magnificent throne in heaven. He looks down onto earth and says to himself....

'Those evil humans down on earth. I hate what they are doing. All this sin... Since I am all-knowing I know exactly what the humans are doing and I understand exactly why they commit each sin. Since I created the humans in my own image and personally programmed human nature into their brains, I am the direct author of all of this sin. The instant I created them I knew exactly what would happen with every single human being right down to the nanosecond level for all eternity. If I didn't like how it was going to turn out, I could have simply changed them when I created them. And since I am perfect, I know exactly what I am doing. But ignore all that. I hate all these people doing exactly what I perfectly designed them to do and knew they would do from the moment I created them. I HATE IT! I tried killing all the humans and animals once in the flood. That certainly did not fix the problem. So here's what I am going to do. I will artificially inseminate a virgin. She will give birth to an incarnated version of me. The humans will eventually crucify and kill the incarnated me. I will sacrifice myself to myself in order to appease myself for the sins and evil that I myself created. That, finally, will make me happy. Yes, sending myself down and having the humans crucify me -- that will satisfy me. I feel much better now. Damn! Am I smart coming up with and idea like that or what or what?'




Quote:
May God speed the return of Jesus Christ to this earth and remove this evil Satan as quickly as possible and set up the Kingdom of God to rule with the resurrected saints to rule under Christ. The whole creation is groaning for this tremendous event soon to come...

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Again, may God speed that day...
You know dude..I sure hope you never get into a position of power!!
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,507,792 times
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Quote:
If Your God Created This Perfect World and Everything That Your God Made/Makes Is Perfect, Then Why All the Evil?

Genesis 3 depicts the Fall of Eden.

Genesis 3 NIV - The Fall Now the serpent was more - Bible Gateway
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:31 PM
 
6,824 posts, read 4,874,288 times
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God is sovereign. This is all a test. We have choice. God knows what choices we will make in the end. The source of evil is demonic spirits led by what's called the "god of this age"/"prince of this world"/"prince of the power of the aires." The scriptures state we either serve this source of darkness or the sole source of light. El Elyon/Yawhew/Ha Shem/Jehovah in the person of the Messiah Jesus/Yeshua which translated means "Yah saves" or "Yahweh is Salvation."

John 3:18-20

King James Version (KJV)

"18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."


Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


Guys choose the light.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 KJV

The Jews didn't recognize their Messiah because he came first as a servant when they were expecting a King as the scriptures proclaim. It hasn't happened yet, but the pieces are all falling into place as was proclaimed.

An OT prophesy of the Messianic savior in what's called the "Day of the Lord"/"Day of Christ"

Isaiah 63

1Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

2Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

4For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

5And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

6And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

7I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.

8For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour."
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