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I think if one were to talley up the number of angry atheist posts compared to the number of angry theist posts it would be quite different from your assertion. Could you please back up your claim with a talley of angry theist posts versus angry atheist posts on this site?
Thanks for your time.
That would be an interesting study. but I don't know if it would be a true reflection of either population. It is possible that the angry posters of one group are more prolific posters.
Perhaps a better study would be a count of posters who post in anger, as a percentage of the number of overall posters in that group. I tend to find that the most prolific writers seldom represent the majority view of the members of the group.
No anger, just an observation that Religious debates tend to break down into angry words. I'm an Administrator for an Islamic forum and we have a comparative religion section in which all members have a great deal of leeway in explaining their beliefs. It is the section in which we most often have to delete threads as they break down into juvenile name calling and personal insults.
This world actually is a ‘war zone’ where a battle is waged for the hearts and souls of mankind. In this war, there can be no middle ground or compromise. All will either saved to eternal life or remain spiritually dead and lost …perhaps, for eternity! .
Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
etc etc etc... blah blah blah... and on and on and on... Just as Woodrow would predict!
So, let the battle rage – This goal of this life is not temporary peace and harmony, but eternal life or death!
WRONG, and quite enraging to me personally. Why? Because you insult by your assumptive arrogance, telling me and us what the sole purpose of all our lives is. WRONG WRONG WRONG! I find this to be one of the major, persistent flaws of so many theist posters here. The result to, those of us who have taken serious life-altering time to think it though to our own conclusions, only then be critically demonized and freely associated with Satan, but usually without any sort of good logical argument in support of their hostile conclusion, is what finally gets our hair lit off, or our undies in a bundle.
Typically, theists might post an interesting point of view, but then, when responded to and challenged by an atheist with lots of good alternate points, or excellent empirical evidence, or some new scientific finding that pretty much terminates a theist's perspective, go all ad-hominem on us, or they clam up and just tell us...
"That's my belief, take it or leave it! And oh, BTW, of course you're wrong, and you're going to hell for sure!"
They never had any intention of an honest debate, or of ever revising, even a tad bit, their position. This can be called trollling, baiting or just plain harassing us for the fun of it.
So we might, yep, get a tad bit angry and then sarcastic. Especially ME. I admit it; it's one of my flaws and also strategies to be sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
As I said in a post on the christian forum...Fear and the loss of control is the root of anger...In the case of the theist it's probably fear that they may be wrong and there really is no god. I see far more anger from theists than from atheists.
What I see from many atheists is a tremendous amount of patience, but when that runs out the atheist becomes frustrated and tired of explaining the same things over and over, (even the meaning of the word atheist) and sometimes responds in sarcastic ways. This really angers the theist.
Again, guilty. But I find it accomplishes what I tactically have in mind when I encounter a thoroughly stubborn and obviously slack-headed theist: they wind up frustrated, angry and fully realizing they didn't make any points at all with anyone This instead of laughing that they've successfully "trolled" another one of us. They lose, and we win. And everyone saw it.
And maybe, just maybe, a little bit of what I've learned in my own thoughtful 10 year conversion from Christianity to scientifically based atheism might just rub off on them late one night, like pollen on a bee, when they are being honest with themselves (which is another problem & another thread... can fervent fundamentalist Christians ever be honest with themselves?)
A quick way to get the daylights beat out of you, is to debate religion with somebody twice your size.
For some reason, a debate about a religious belief leads to anger. Does it have to be like that?
Do us theists have a rule book imprinted on our brains that says we should get mad at everybody who does not believe the same as us?
Perhaps the answer is very simple. We only accept our Scriptures as being the source of proof. We fail to see that those who believe different have a different standard of proof. we do not always know how to react to another person's source of proof if it is not the same as ours.
Any offers of solutions for eliminating anger from religious debates?
Angry debates here are a reflection of real life - afterall, over centuries, we have gone to wars and killed for religion.
When any religion says it is the ONLY way, it leaves no room for compromise - everyone / everything else has to be wrong. If you disagree, you are acting superior or mocking and you are wrong - that version of god said so. With such deeply-entrentched postion as a starting point, why be surprised that discussions are heated? Heck, there are heated discussions (or wars) even within the followers of the same religion.
Plus people are more brave behind the internet so these forums may represent the worst of many.
Just look at this thread about anger (we are not seriously discussing religion here)- and you can see anger and righteousness in many places as to why or who is right.
Solution: unless we all find and agree to a "true" answer, there isn't a solution and we will see pigs fly before this happens. Best we can do is to uphold our constitution and make sure it allows for this plurarity of opinion. On internet, one can just put in different subforums and have a common area where the interested people can "discuss" - kinda like what CD does.
No anger, just an observation that Religious debates tend to break down into angry words. I'm an Administrator for an Islamic forum and we have a comparative religion section in which all members have a great deal of leeway in explaining their beliefs. It is the section in which we most often have to delete threads as they break down into juvenile name calling and personal insults.
Yeah, I've seen that too, even within a faith.
I wonder if part of it is the anonymity of conversing online, & part of it is the emotion tied to religious belief & tradition that brings out the verbal wrestling matches.
I think religious (or atheist) beliefs represent our chosen illusions, or coping methods. Often, they are clinged to for dear life! Then, for whatever reason, when we're ready to question them, it is painful to realize we didn't see the entire picture when we'd thought we had. But to have someone question them when we're not ready - WATCH OUT!!
If we didn't care so much, we wouldn't engage, but we do! What do we care so much about? I think it varies... Ego/saving face, Being right (if we're wrong - then what?), Helping others "see the light" - - We could learn from each other & imagine that's the goal with forums like this, yet it's a give & take. We can't help anyone "see the light" when we're in the dark about how we're making them feel.
I think it takes a lot of humility, patience & genuine caring & selflessness to really try to understand perspectives different from our own. Most of us just want to inform others of all that we know... & then nobody feels heard, but keep trying to feel heard.
Ideally, we'd try to see what we could gain from each other - what the other has to offer... & incorporate whatever big or small part into our new perspective... & all learn together, even if we don't progress in the exact same direction.
Last edited by SuperSoul; 08-28-2011 at 10:59 PM..
I think alot of times people get taken the wrong way when someone reads words they typed. Alot of time I'm straight up for example, but I'm not mad at all. I can be taken the wrong way easily by the words I type. It's not anger though. I'm just straight up. I don't take someones word for it unless they accually make sense and can show or explain the truth. There is nothing wrong with standing firm in what you believe. There is something wrong when someone proves something to you and still you refuse to believe even though the facts are there to oppose your belief. That's a serious problem. I'll admit I'm very stubborn. But I do however know for a fact that I've met the true God personally. That's a proven fact.
Worthy is the Lamb... Yahushua... I will worship Him forever. That is true... So Be It.
The OPs one-sided post content aside...I'll deal with just the title to his thread.
I've said this scores of times on this forum...It's about RESPECT...or the perception of having been disrespected (most take great exception to that) that causes debates to turn into "war-zones".
I know there are some (unfortunately, MANY) on both sides that say, "It's not your right to be shown respect, especially if you are claiming THAT".
But THAT'S the problem!
If you KNOW an individual or a group holds a certain view or concept...and you outwardly criticize and mock that view...you ARE being disrespectful.
Anyone referring to The Bible as "the Buy Bull", or any writing they KNOW many consider sacred "a book of myths written by goat-herders"... or calling Jesus "Hey Zeus"...or calling the main Deity of a religion "Evil Sky Daddy", "Invisible Friend", etc...or proclaiming those that subscribe to Theism/Deism to be "deluded", "believers in fairytales/fantasy", or "not right in the head"...is showing great disrespect.
Anyone telling an individual or group that subscribes to Atheism, or holds a viewpoint of Non-Belief...that they are "lost", "sinners", "going to burn in Hell", "evil infidels", or that "not believing" makes them messed up in some way...is showing great disrespect.
Even though (at least in the USA) the law gives everyone the "right" to say what they are saying and do what they are doing...and those that are "hurt" by what they say don't have the "right" to "not be offended"...does not then justify it from a standpoint of demonstrating respect.
And just because the laws in some other jurisdiction in this world, gives one "rights"...doesn't necessarily make it "right"...no matter what "side" you are on.
Show what you KNOW to be disrespect of another's viewpoint...don't be surprised when you get a "war".
MOF...don't be surprised if you even get a REAL war!
And BTW...I am not suggesting that I'm innocent of the infraction...I know I'm not. MOF, I'm guilty of "stirring up" BOTH sides.
We hold logic in high esteem, yet humans are profoundly illogical creatures. When religious debates turn into war zones (figuratively or literally) it's a manifestation of how Reason is overwhelmed by Passion. Emotion devours Logic. This is what it means to be human.
Spot on. But that's why being human is not necessarily the best thing. We do not have to play the game evolution arranged for us. We can think and we don't have to let our instincts control us. It comes easier if you practice.
No anger, just an observation that Religious debates tend to break down into angry words. I'm an Administrator for an Islamic forum and we have a comparative religion section in which all members have a great deal of leeway in explaining their beliefs. It is the section in which we most often have to delete threads as they break down into juvenile name calling and personal insults.
Yeah...That'll happen.
A quote in a Peanuts cartoon (I always though that Charles Schultz should have been awarded an honorary philosophy diploma)
"The whole trouble with you is that you don't want to hear what the whole trouble with you is!"
We are tempted to point out where we think the other person is wrong and that gets taken personally. Rather than consider whether we have got it wrong, we hit back and it becomes trading insults.
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It's about lack of respect for others
