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Old 09-02-2011, 02:30 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,727,656 times
Reputation: 1351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Prayer also led me away from the Bible. The bible of today, especially the NT, contains very little of what God(swt) taught mankind. A person may find something following today's Bible, even an occasional warm fuzzy feeling. But, the bible was lost and misused when people began worshiping the Messenger, instead of what he taught. One of the Best Lessons about prayer came from what Jesus(as) actually said when asked to tell how we should pray. but in translation and interpretation that is hard to find. But here it is in Aramaic with the English Translation.

ABWUN (Pronounced Avoon) Changed to "Our Father" by translators that did not understand that Ab is not the same as Abbas


Abwūn


"Oh Thou, from whom the breath of life comes,

d'bwaschmāja


Who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.

Nethkādasch schmach


May Your light be experienced in my utmost holiest.

Tźtź malkuthach.


Your Heavenly Domain approaches.

Nehwź tzevjānach aikāna d'bwaschmāja af b'arha.


Let Your will come true - in the universe (all that vibrates)

Just as on earth (that is material and dense).

Hawvlān lachma d'sūnkanān jaomāna.


Give us wisdom (understanding, assistance) for our daily need,

Waschboklān chaubźn wachtahźn aikāna

Daf chnān schwoken l'chaijabźn.


Detach the fetters of faults that bind us, (karma)

Like we let go the guilt of others.

Wela tachlān l'nesjuna


Let us not be lost in superficial things (materialism, common temptations),

Ela patzān min bischa.


But let us be freed from that what keeps us off from our true purpose.

Metol dilachie malkutha wahaila wateschbuchta l'ahlām almīn.


From You comes the all-working will, the lively strength to act,

The song that beautifies all and renews itself from age to age.

Amźn.

Sealed in trust, faith and truth.

(I confirm with my entire being)
Well when you say they changed up the bible, you really mean they changed up the bible because that prayer barely resembles the "Our Father" prayer found in modern Bibles.

The prayer is lofty and beautiful, but not my cup of tea in these hard and trying times. I don't WANT money. I need it. I don't WANT good health. I need it and I'm not about kissing ass and groveling to get it from some peekaboo deity. If that's his or her M.O, well, he can stick it up his throne.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,578,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Well when you say they changed up the bible, you really mean they changed up the bible because that prayer barely resembles the "Our Father" prayer found in modern Bibles.

The prayer is lofty and beautiful, but not my cup of tea in these hard and trying times. I don't WANT money. I need it. I don't WANT good health. I need it and I'm not about kissing ass and groveling to get it from some peekaboo deity. If that's his or her M.O, well, he can stick it up his throne.
The Bible of today has very little resemblance to what it once was. Christianity has changed more often than a Manhattan Traffic light. Each time requiring some reverse engineering of The bible to match the desired results. Books of the bible have come and gone as fast as popular novels in a free library. There is still a large sock pile of "Scriptures" that have yet to be introduced. I beleive the Book of Revelations was the most recent added sometime in the 1600s. Since the 1600s the trend has been more for deletion and "New More Accurate" Interpretations and Translations. Prior to the KJV the bible had 80 plus books. A few denominations have kept 73 a few have 84.

The trend of non-Denominentional, Bible only, Evangelical Fundamentalism that began in Post Civil War USA seems to have peaked out and is now in a self destructive spiral as more fanatics believe they alone have the truth. I suspect there will soon be a return to the more Structured Mainline denominations with the "Finding" of over looked scripture. The Dead Sea scrolls may provide the material for this provided they can somehow justify them being the scriptures of the Essenes and not the Early Christians. Toss in the Book of Enoch (again, it was part of the Christian Bible for nearly 1000 years) add to this a few interpretations that will do things like justify Veneration of Saints, "prove" Mary is an intercessor. It just may be the "Church" is in need of a female part of the Trinity, it would not surprise be if newer interpretations may not set the trend for Mary to replace the "Holy Spirit" in the Trinity. Would even Humanize God further and make Christianity more palatable to those pushing for Female clergy.

I may never see the next Pope, but if the tends continue, may get to see pictures of her husband on television.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:10 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,233,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Was there a point in your Christian experience that you prayed and knew deep in your gut no one was listening to you but yourself? You knew you were praying for something or about something that you just KNEW wasn't going to happen but you took a shot that "luck" would step in - not god? And when the prayer was not answered you dreamed up of excuses and placed the blame on yourself for it not being answered?
Nope. Even when I was very young, I knew that it didn't do anything.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:31 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,727,656 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Bible of today has very little resemblance to what it once was. Christianity has changed more often than a Manhattan Traffic light. Each time requiring some reverse engineering of The bible to match the desired results. Books of the bible have come and gone as fast as popular novels in a free library. There is still a large sock pile of "Scriptures" that have yet to be introduced. I beleive the Book of Revelations was the most recent added sometime in the 1600s. Since the 1600s the trend has been more for deletion and "New More Accurate" Interpretations and Translations. Prior to the KJV the bible had 80 plus books. A few denominations have kept 73 a few have 84.

The trend of non-Denominentional, Bible only, Evangelical Fundamentalism that began in Post Civil War USA seems to have peaked out and is now in a self destructive spiral as more fanatics believe they alone have the truth. I suspect there will soon be a return to the more Structured Mainline denominations with the "Finding" of over looked scripture. The Dead Sea scrolls may provide the material for this provided they can somehow justify them being the scriptures of the Essenes and not the Early Christians. Toss in the Book of Enoch (again, it was part of the Christian Bible for nearly 1000 years) add to this a few interpretations that will do things like justify Veneration of Saints, "prove" Mary is an intercessor. It just may be the "Church" is in need of a female part of the Trinity, it would not surprise be if newer interpretations may not set the trend for Mary to replace the "Holy Spirit" in the Trinity. Would even Humanize God further and make Christianity more palatable to those pushing for Female clergy.

I may never see the next Pope, but if the tends continue, may get to see pictures of her husband on television.
Oh I know all about the bible and its history already. I know it VERY well.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,727,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Nope. Even when I was very young, I knew that it didn't do anything.
I drank the Kool-Aid and even slurped the remaining drops, unfortunately.
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Old 09-03-2011, 03:03 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,296,043 times
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I talk to my dogs, for unlike the gods, they at least look like they are interested, and they exist.
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Old 09-03-2011, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 13,698,374 times
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I'd say that I used to pray "just in case". Deep down inside I knew praying probably had nothing to do with the outcome, but I would still do it just in case there was an outside chance it might actually help. Eventually, to prevent disappointment, my prayers became more vague, and full of requests that would almost certainly happen regardless. Things like, "Keep so-and-so safe tonight, help me to do your will, etc" Oh but I was a humble Christian! I eventually stopped including any requests in my prayers, figuring I was too vile a creature to deserve asking for anything! At that point my prayers almost exclusively became me begging for forgiveness. The thing is, in all of my years of praying, not once did it ever feel like I was doing anything but talking to myself in my head. I would never have admitted it to anyone else, and when I'd have that thought I'd immediately reprimand myself for doubting God. But it was true. I never felt anything, and the whole act of praying always just seemed awkward and even fake. Apparently I just couldn't do it right, or at least that's what I told myself. It's a depressing thing, hearing your fellow Christians talk about "communicating with God through prayer" and "being overcome by the Holy Spirit" when your prayers just feel like you're talking to yourself. But then you notice that you also tell people about communicating with God through prayer, feeling the Holy Spirit, etc. and you start to wonder if anyone else actually experiences those things at all. The Christian music artist, Chris Rice, actually had a song about this very thing, and the song always spoke to me because I knew exactly what he was talking about:

I would take no for an answer,
Just to know I heard you speak,
And I'm wondering why I've never,
Seen the signs they claim they see,
A lotta special revelations,
Meant for everybody but me,
Maybe I don't truly know You,
or maybe I just simply believe...

Chorus: Cause I can sniff, I can see, and I can
count up pretty high; but these faculties
aren't getting me any closer to the sky,
but my heart of faith keeps poundin' so
I know I'm doin' fine but sometimes findin
you is just like tryin to smell the color nine.
Smell the color nine...

Now I've never felt the presence,
But I know You're always near,
And I've never heard the calling,
But somehow You've led me right here,
So I'm not lookin' for burnin' bushes,
Or some Divine graffiti to appear,
I'm just beggin You for Your wisdom,
And I believe You're puttin' some here...

Although he seems to be saying, "I never experience all these things other Christians talk about, but I still believe you exist (because I want to?)" But for me, I tried to tell myself it was all true, despite seeing no evidence of any kind. I wasn't able to simply brush off the doubts as easily as he states in the song. Eventually I simply stopped lying to myself, and worked up the courage to actually question my religion. And it quickly fell apart.
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