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Old 09-05-2011, 12:17 AM
 
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evil is a caricature of violence.

violence is the result of the blocking of libido.
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Old 09-05-2011, 04:37 AM
 
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Firstly I'd reject any idea of evil being what a god says is evil or good being whatever a god says is good. Partly because it presupposes the existence of a god but mainly because we humans instinctively have our own idea of what's good and evil and if a god does something we consider evil, then evil it is and, while we may say God can do what he likes or it's justified or we deserved it, there is still this idea that there is a concept of good or evil quite, apart from what a god has to say about it.

The fact is that humans have a moral code and they have been trying to devise ways of making things fair for everyone since Hammurabi. The bottom line is that people want to be happy and they don't want to be miserable. It follows that no -one wants other people to make them miserable and so the way of getting everyone not making everyone else miserable is best summed up in the Golden rule which remarkably is found in separate places from ancient Greece to ancient China.

Using that rule based on human preferences, we can build up a moral consensus code. The laws we have don't actually do that. However that's another discussion.

What I argue is that basing laws on what is in Holy Books is not a good idea. They may well adopt some good ideas of human morality but, where humanity might want to take issue with some orders or directives from Holy Writ, I reject utterly any religious veto against us doing so.
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Old 09-05-2011, 05:03 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,278,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy Anne View Post
evil is deliberately causing harm, and enjoying it.
This is close to what I'd say.

This is the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia on it, but I'm not entirely sure I agree to their view. (The 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia has some good stuff, but it also has stuff on why the Inquisition was good and why you should avoid close contact with Jewish people and so forth)

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Evil

One I'd heard is that evil is the lack of good the way cold is a lack of heat. Although it's a neat metaphor in a way, there's something about that which doesn't entirely work for me. It makes evil sound like a simple deficiency and I'm not sure that "feels" right to me. I get the sense "evil" can be a bit more active or abundant than that.

I might be tempted to think of evil in terms of "harm or destruction without any justification." But then that would indicate killing a guy because he's obnoxious isn't evil because it has a justification. The thing is if it's just "causing harm and liking it", which I think is mostly a pretty good one understand, then one could ask

What of the surgeon who enjoys his or her job? Yes they are intending to make the person better, but that will involve the intentional damage of skin and sometimes cutting of organs.

Or

What of the cancer doctor whose treatments make the patient feel worse in hopes of making them better? If they enjoy that job are they evil?

Still I do think there is evil and I would think it has a good deal to do with inflicting harm or injury. Possibly something like "Inflicting harm or injury without any valid justification." Granted though that would get into "what is valid?"

Now if you want to get into moral codes and say that anything that goes against them is "evil" that might be a bit easier, but that would just be a list of things that are evil rather than a definition of evil. Some I think are fairly universal as "taboo" or "wrong" are

*Hurting those who help you.
*Generally killing or incapacitating beneficial members of your society.
*Endangering the lives of others without purpose.
*Having sex with your biological mother. (Or any parent/child incest if paternity is known or assumed in the culture)
*Desecrating sacred objects or places. (In a secular world this could include things like acting disrespectful at a memorial or vigil or something)

Or some such.

Last edited by Thomas R.; 09-05-2011 at 05:18 AM..
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Old 09-05-2011, 05:34 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,071,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
What to you is considered to be evil?
Many people think about good and evil as if they are things that actually exist in and of themselves. As if they are attributes of the action or thing being spoken of in the same way that size and weight might be. These tend to be the people who believe in Objective Morality and things like that.

At the end of the day Morality is as subjective as anything else. We are a social species and we wish to live together. Morality is just the set of guidelines by which we try to live together in the best way possible.

"Good" and "Right" therefore are just the things that a person believes will maximize the success of that endeavor and assist us in living together as best we can.

"Bad" and "Evil" are just the things that a person believes will cause such endeavors to fail.

So to answer the question of what I consider to be "evil"... anything that causes our ability to live together as a social species to fail, or causes people in that society a reduction in well being.
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Old 09-05-2011, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
That's not how society works. We don't go by Nietzsche.
Society has been analyzed by Nietzsche. Nietzsche did not lay down the law for 'good' and 'evil'.
Society certainly does work on the concept of 'acceptable' vs 'not acceptable'.
The world abounds with examples:
Is the killing of a doctor who performs abortions evil?
Is it evil for a military to bomb civilians?
Is it evil to torture prisoners?
In all of these we will not have a universal agreement, what is evil in one person's opinion may not be evil in a different opinion.
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:14 AM
 
34,801 posts, read 8,982,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
This is close to what I'd say.

This is the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia on it, but I'm not entirely sure I agree to their view. (The 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia has some good stuff, but it also has stuff on why the Inquisition was good and why you should avoid close contact with Jewish people and so forth)

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Evil

One I'd heard is that evil is the lack of good the way cold is a lack of heat. Although it's a neat metaphor in a way, there's something about that which doesn't entirely work for me. It makes evil sound like a simple deficiency and I'm not sure that "feels" right to me. I get the sense "evil" can be a bit more active or abundant than that.
I agree. Evil can come about through inaction or through action and taking the golden rule as an arbiter, if the person doesn't want it done to them but the person goes ahead, then we have evil.

That is far too simple of course. What kid wants to go to school? Who wants to kick in taxes? Who wants to have their teeth out? Where do we decide that some people have to do what they might not like for an overall good? It has to be a consensus view and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

The absence of good, by the way was the punch line of 'Einstein and the atheist professor'
http://www.religioustolerance.org/culeins.htm (p.s ...don't you tell ME where I should put a p.s!...worth reading for the following discussion of good, evil and morality. Very relevant to this thread.)
and was intended to explain why God is not responsible for evil. Evil is not a 'thing' in itself, it is merely an absence of good through not doing good - which is arguable as you said. In fact it is our fault for not doing good or choosing evil.

Quote:
I might be tempted to think of evil in terms of "harm or destruction without any justification." But then that would indicate killing a guy because he's obnoxious isn't evil because it has a justification. The thing is if it's just "causing harm and liking it", which I think is mostly a pretty good one understand, then one could ask

What of the surgeon who enjoys his or her job? Yes they are intending to make the person better, but that will involve the intentional damage of skin and sometimes cutting of organs.

Or

What of the cancer doctor whose treatments make the patient feel worse in hopes of making them better? If they enjoy that job are they evil?
One might ask whether it is evil to kiss an actress on a film set if you enjoy it. I'd say it is irrelevant. If the person being kissed is consenting to it, it doesn't matter whether the person is enjoying it or not (though it is nice if people like their work, the fact is that most of us do it just to get paid). I think the matter of what you are doing or whether or not you are liking it is a red herring.

Quote:
Still I do think there is evil and I would think it has a good deal to do with inflicting harm or injury. Possibly something like "Inflicting harm or injury without any valid justification." Granted though that would get into "what is valid?"
Yep. Your reasoning is pretty good. You arrived at my para. 2 above. I heard from my wife (1) recently about her teeth going to crap. I tried to get her to have regular checks for her own good but there's a limit to how much you can push a person. In the end, they have to decide - unless that becomes a neglect of social duty to the extent that it becomes an imposition on the rest of us. Then society has to take action.

Quote:
Now if you want to get into moral codes and say that anything that goes against them is "evil" that might be a bit easier, but that would just be a list of things that are evil rather than a definition of evil. Some I think are fairly universal as "taboo" or "wrong" are

*Hurting those who help you.
*Generally killing or incapacitating beneficial members of your society.
*Endangering the lives of others without purpose.
*Having sex with your biological mother. (Or any parent/child incest if paternity is known or assumed in the culture)
*Desecrating sacred objects or places. (In a secular world this could include things like acting disrespectful at a memorial or vigil or something)

Or some such.
That's quite a mix. I'd much rather start with a fairly sound and comprehensive 'who's it hurting?' rule based on the golden one and examine each case on its merits. Undoubtedly that is going to cut across a few taboos and the temptation there is to say 'We Know This Is Wrong Because It Always Has Been So This Method Doesn't Work'.

We need a lot more rational national before we can decide a rational moral code. GoldenRule (2) will recall that I suggested a more rational approach to sexual matters than is presently the case. That is quite hard enough to appraise apart from shrieking prejudice and circular argument, let alone other matters that might cut even deeper into the blubber of traditional taboo.

(1) ex -wife as she is a Buddhist nun and we are actually still married though a divorce was issued...it's complicated...

(2) I am making a Resolution never to call him Goldenshower again

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-05-2011 at 06:26 AM..
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Ohio
3,441 posts, read 4,996,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashkarloveALLAHmo View Post
the evil my brother ....
People are more likely to read things if you used proper sentence/paragraph structure.
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,344 posts, read 18,603,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackwatch View Post
People are more likely to read things if you used proper sentence/paragraph structure.
The copy/paste posts are frequent enough by most of the Muslims that come here, that they usually get skipped over anyway.
The run-on format is a giveaway that that's all it is.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,934,706 times
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An example of evil:


The Evil of Religion - YouTube
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:05 AM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
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evil????!!!!>> evil is a so called god that sends people to hell for eternity for trivial acts..
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