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Old 09-05-2011, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,596,173 times
Reputation: 7377

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt View Post
That is a good list, and as one atheist, I agree.
It is a good list and a very good suggestion for somebody to start such a thread.

Debates even over the most controversial of topics can be done in peace when we simply understand that behind every word there is a Human Being.

We all make errors, we all want to be correct, we all have our own sets of unproven beliefs we consider to be self evident. When we become aware of the impression we actually give, we can use that to make changes for better communication. Good communication exchanges viewpoints not hostility.
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 10,745,443 times
Reputation: 19957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Us theists seem to have a knack for making our beliefs look foolish. Especially on forums and Message Boards. Over the past few years I have often seen these practices done. Sadly these same errors are done repeatedly.

I don't have 10 on my list. Perhaps some can suggest other errors we persist in making, to bring the list up to 10.

1. Demeaning a religion you disagree with.

This seems to be the most common error we make. Showing what you perceive as errors in another person's beliefs does not equate to meaning you are correct. It comes across as evidence you are prejudiced and a bigot.


2. Issuing the challenge to prove you are wrong.

We are the ones claiming to be true. A person disagreeing with us has no responsibility to prove we are wrong. The Burden is upon us to submit reason we believe we are correct. to do other wise only makes us look like we have no logical reason to believe what we believe.


3. Failure to distinguish between our opinion and what our belief says.

We all have opinions and we all are quick to express them. We even have opinions about what we believe our faith is. But if we fail to distinguish between our opinion and actual doctrine, we risk spreading error about our own faith. Sometimes our own opinion can be quite ridiculous.


4. Assuming everybody believes our source of proof is accepted as proof by all people

We have to come to an understanding that no matter how much we believe our scripture to be true, not everybody does. We need to accept we will often come across people that believe our scripture to be false, misleading and evil. These are the ones it is a waste of time to quote scripture to. to speak with people, One needs to speak in terms they accept.



5. Resorting to personal attacks against anyone who believes different from you.

It should be obvious that this only arouses anger and/or hurt feelings. It also comes across as ignorance as it means you do not have the knowledge to reply with facts and are limited to an emotional response.


6. Failing to see that just because a person disagrees with us, does not mean they are evil.

Us theists do have a tendency to come across as being arrogant and self righteous. We do come across as bigoted haters of all people except those who have views that do not differ from ours.


Reading across forums and boards, I am not surprised atheists laugh at us. Our debates and answers often come across as ridiculous. We also tend to be seen as robotic thinkers with no ability to think on our own. We do have the ability to change that view, simply by speaking without malice and understanding another person may not believe what we believe and know that they have reasons to believe as they do.

proselytizing does not make a religion look good, lots of muslims come on here drop a verse from the qu'ran, and never respond.
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,596,173 times
Reputation: 7377
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan View Post
proselytizing does not make a religion look good, lots of muslims come on here drop a verse from the qu'ran, and never respond.
I agree that can give the wrong impression about us and be irritating to those not interested.

Here we have a fine line separating information threads and forcing a person to read.

On the plus side none are posting off topic messages in existing threads, which would be without a doubt proselytizing. This is starting a one post thread that people can ignore. The issue could be resolved if there was justification for a Muslim forum. Since there is none, starting a one post thread may be the least intrusive.

Perhaps a solution would be for us to start a single thread titled something like "Information about Islam" and those who wish may post those on that thread.

Us Muslims are not supposed to be invasive about information regarding Islam and not force our views upon those not interested, unless it is in response to a misconception being said about us. However we have an obligation to provide information to those who desire to learn about Islam.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:16 PM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,615,793 times
Reputation: 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Woodrow, you are looking better all the time and so does Thom R.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
...Arguing about something you have only one side's perspective on? Not so impressive.
Good point, Rifleman.
To show empathy & understanding (which is a key to effective communication) - we need to consider perspectives different from what we're comfortable with. This applies to all.
Truth is in perspective... The more perspectives, the more truthful.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:42 PM
 
693 posts, read 398,327 times
Reputation: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
.
No, whatís sad is many comes in feeling if one speaks the truth, ALL wants to offend others,that's not the case. People say itís wrong, many donít try to offend others. Others just get offended because it hits too close to home. If we here are saying, what we say, concerning Godís will, offends other, and thatís wrong. Then why say we follow or serve Jesus, because he offended many, ESPECIALLY false ministers,(Matt.23:13-15 and Matt.-[SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]23:1-7[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]), This is why they lied to have him murder.

Jesus said many things that might in a negative way hit close to home, I KNOW many here had read some. But even if it hit close to many of people in his day. Instead of getting offended, upset, and complaining, because they wanted to NOT believe it applied to them. They checked themselves and changed the way they lived. Today those who say theyíre believers wants it both ways. Many claim to want to follow Jesus. Yet they also tell themselves itís ok to live the life of the world, (James 4:4 and Mark 7:6,7), Simply because they really donít want to let it go.

Not ALL come in being evil, nasty, or mean. many of us come in trying to respect others. But we CANíT come in saying what we feel others want to hear. In order to NOT offend anyone, people are different from each other. some may get offended if you even sneeze wrong,(I've seen this happen), should one arond that person sneeze a different way? so should one NOT say what we must say concerning God's words. because someone will take offence? if thatís the case, then we canít say weíre following Jesus.

I personally wonít be a certain way, JUST because I see so many of that group being nasty or negative towards me. Iíve seen many believers bringing up Godís word to non-believers. yet attacking them in the worst way. Iíve also seen many so-call believers attacking other believers and showing hatred. Just because they donít agree with them, or they post scriptures that proved what they believed were wrong.

Itís sad, many believers today act as though ALL teachings are true. when it wasnít even true before Jesus, during him, and after him. IF we claim to want the truth, even if it means a finger is pointed directly at us. Then we should accept, Jehovah GOD, and Jesus words are directed to us. Instead of sayingÖthatís NOT me! How can we change our old ways?, (1Pet.1:140), when we donít even want to hear what we NEED to change. In order to be accepted by God.

IF we claim to be follower and servers of Jehovah God, and Jesus. Then we canít come in here acting like itís ok for other to live in an abominating or sinful way. We canít like, agree with ,or approve it, be-it friends, family, or strangers,(Levi.5:1 and Exo[SIZE=2][SIZE=2].[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]23:1,2). [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]No we shouldnít be mean towards anyone, but if we KNOW, their teachings are wrong, we must call it out, againÖJesus did! he knew it was his Fathers will to teach humans the truth, in order that we may live,(John 17:3 -And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent).

Many believers of false teachings,(in Jesus time), thought they had a first class ticket to Heaven, until Jesus burst their bubble. Just like then, so is now, NO ONE wants to believe their teachings is wrong. Yet most of us claim to have read the ďwhole bibleĒ have we NOT read when Jesus said not everyone saying lord, would enter his Fatherís kingdom?( So when those believer point the finger at the non-believer. You better realize, itís NOT them who saying ďlord, lord.Ē(Matt.7:22,23).


Jehovah God called his People to/ Jesus told his followers to spread the word to ALL, (Matt.28:19,20),ďTeaching them to observe all things.Ē so what should we do?, not speak Godís word because others canít handle it? My life isnít in any humanís hand, itís in Jehovah God. So though I would never try to insult anyone, and Iím sorry if many canít handle having fingers pointed. If so be-it, i WILL speak Godís word. peace

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Old 09-05-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 12,596,173 times
Reputation: 7377
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo-50 View Post
No, what’s sad is many comes in feeling if one speaks the truth, ALL wants to offend others,that's not the case. People say it’s wrong, many don’t try to offend others. Others just get offended because it hits too close to home. If we here are saying, what we say, concerning God’s will, offends other, and that’s wrong. Then why say we follow or serve Jesus, because he offended many, ESPECIALLY false ministers,(Matt.23:13-15 and Matt.-[SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]23:1-7[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]), This is why they lied to have him murder.

Jesus said many things that might in a negative way hit close to home, I KNOW many here had read some. But even if it hit close to many of people in his day. Instead of getting offended, upset, and complaining, because they wanted to NOT believe it applied to them. They checked themselves and changed the way they lived. Today those who say they’re believers wants it both ways. Many claim to want to follow Jesus. Yet they also tell themselves it’s ok to live the life of the world, (James 4:4 and Mark 7:6,7), Simply because they really don’t want to let it go.

Not ALL come in being evil, nasty, or mean. many of us come in trying to respect others. But we CAN’T come in saying what we feel others want to hear. In order to NOT offend anyone, people are different from each other. some may get offended if you even sneeze wrong,(I've seen this happen), should one arond that person sneeze a different way? so should one NOT say what we must say concerning God's words. because someone will take offence? if that’s the case, then we can’t say we’re following Jesus.

I personally won’t be a certain way, JUST because I see so many of that group being nasty or negative towards me. I’ve seen many believers bringing up God’s word to non-believers. yet attacking them in the worst way. I’ve also seen many so-call believers attacking other believers and showing hatred. Just because they don’t agree with them, or they post scriptures that proved what they believed were wrong.

It’s sad, many believers today act as though ALL teachings are true. when it wasn’t even true before Jesus, during him, and after him. IF we claim to want the truth, even if it means a finger is pointed directly at us. Then we should accept, Jehovah GOD, and Jesus words are directed to us. Instead of saying…that’s NOT me! How can we change our old ways?, (1Pet.1:140), when we don’t even want to hear what we NEED to change. In order to be accepted by God.

IF we claim to be follower and servers of Jehovah God, and Jesus. Then we can’t come in here acting like it’s ok for other to live in an abominating or sinful way. We can’t like, agree with ,or approve it, be-it friends, family, or strangers,(Levi.5:1 and Exo[SIZE=2][SIZE=2].[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]23:1,2). [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]No we shouldn’t be mean towards anyone, but if we KNOW, their teachings are wrong, we must call it out, again…Jesus did! he knew it was his Fathers will to teach humans the truth, in order that we may live,(John 17:3 -And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent).

Many believers of false teachings,(in Jesus time), thought they had a first class ticket to Heaven, until Jesus burst their bubble. Just like then, so is now, NO ONE wants to believe their teachings is wrong. Yet most of us claim to have read the “whole bible” have we NOT read when Jesus said not everyone saying lord, would enter his Father’s kingdom?( So when those believer point the finger at the non-believer. You better realize, it’s NOT them who saying “lord, lord.”(Matt.7:22,23).


Jehovah God called his People to/ Jesus told his followers to spread the word to ALL, (Matt.28:19,20),“Teaching them to observe all things.” so what should we do?, not speak God’s word because others can’t handle it? My life isn’t in any human’s hand, it’s in Jehovah God. So though I would never try to insult anyone, and I’m sorry if many can’t handle having fingers pointed. If so be-it, i WILL speak God’s word. peace
Those of us who have belief in God(swt) and are adherents of a Religion carry with us a strong responsibility to present our words in a manner that is understandable, true, and will be listened to.

This means we need to address ourselves to who we are speaking or writing to. We do need to adapt to our potential reader or listener. If we are speaking to a person we know well we have more leeway in how we word things. When we speak to a neighbor in his home we need to abide by the rules of the home. If we are addressing a group of strangers, we have to be certain we can retain an audience and not sound foolish.

When we are on a forum or message board we need to consider we do not know our readers personally, we do not know what will be seen as offensive, we do not know what will be seen as foolish. Also space with people of many beliefs and disbelief. We need to anticipate disagreement and if we want to be read we need to post our replies in a manner that will not be taken wrong. We need to demonstrate even more courtesy than we would to a person we are speaking face to face with. the purpose of this thread is to get feed back on what will cause people to want to avoid reading our replies and to keep us from looking foolish or aggressive.

It is pointless for me to quote from the Qur'an unless I know the reader accepts the Qur'an as truth or has a desire to learn what is written in the Qur'an. While I have strong believe in the Qur'an I need to be aware that not all people accept it, if I am going to disagree with them. I have to first prove to them that my beliefs are true. To do other wise I will appear to be either aggressive or foolish. Since I do not believe the bible to be true and am aware of what some people do that offends me, I need to make a conscious effort to not do the same when I am speaking of or debating for Islam.
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