U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-08-2011, 04:22 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,043 posts, read 30,788,680 times
Reputation: 12224

Advertisements

The oldest man-made place of worship yet discovered, Göbekli Tepe is "one of the most important monuments in the world," says Hassan Karabulut, associate curator of the nearby Urfa Museum.

The World's First Temple
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-08-2011, 04:37 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,592,805 times
Reputation: 9494
I'm curious as to how they estimated the 12000 year age of the site.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 04:56 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,082,088 times
Reputation: 2972
Quite a few ways I imagine, which tends to be how things are done, but a quick search on Klaus Schmidt on google who led the team working there, the radiocarbon dating for example are available for people to read. You can find them here : History Of Civilization Began In Urfa - 13,500 Year Old Statue Amazes Archeologists Throughout The World
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 05:10 AM
 
35,038 posts, read 9,065,016 times
Reputation: 4826
This is Turkey, right? That has many sites dated to the neolithic but which show the first civilisations (e.g Catal Huyuk) emerged out of the development of farmng. The dating has been pretty well established and I imagine the temple is in a known strata.

But what's the point? I'm sure that YE enthusiasts or Genesis - literalists have already moved the date of Eden back from Bishop Usher's 6,000 BC to 10, 000, 15,000 and are now looking at 20,000 BC or even earlier. Which means that this temple is well within Y/E - Bible - literalist limits and., of course, (sorry lads) means that the Flood could easily predate any of our post 3,000 BC civilizations. Mind we would be expecting to see some washed in silt and few dead dinosaurs in buildings these early unless the FLOOD has to be shifted to before 12,000 BC, which is going to worry the YE lobby considerably, I imagine.

P.s I just had a look at the site. Oh I miss C34. He'd have loved this clear evidence of antedilivian civilisations with obvious stylistic links with Atlantean temple architecture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 05:16 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,592,805 times
Reputation: 9494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Quite a few ways I imagine, which tends to be how things are done, but a quick search on Klaus Schmidt on google who led the team working there, the radiocarbon dating for example are available for people to read. You can find them here : History Of Civilization Began In Urfa - 13,500 Year Old Statue Amazes Archeologists Throughout The World
Thanks for the link. Interesting. I knew nothing about pediogenic coatings until now. I was wondering how they could differentiate between the age of the stone the statue was cut from and the age of the statue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 06:04 AM
 
35,038 posts, read 9,065,016 times
Reputation: 4826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Thanks for the link. Interesting. I knew nothing about pediogenic coatings until now. I was wondering how they could differentiate between the age of the stone the statue was cut from and the age of the statue.
Good point. I note first the comment here "Comment GÖBEKLI TEPE The Schlangenpfeilergebäude pertains to the earlier of the two building phases attested thus far at the site, i.e. Old Phase (level III) and Young Phase (level II) (where level I relates to the topsoil finds). Since coming from the fill of the structure, the two level III samples may postdate the Old Phase."...
The surface finds cannot be dated in situ but enough of them would indicate the latest date of the strata. The pediogenic coatings are presumably identifiable as not being part of the original rock and post - date the carving of it of course. I'd never heard of them before so I'll have a look.

"Samples suitable for dating consist of dense carbonate rinds around pebbles from the Cca soil horizon.....The corrections are based on the assumptions that (1) the carbonate initially contains negligible amounts of Th232 and Th230, or has a Th230/Th232 ratio similar to that in detrital minerals,"

http://gsabulletin.gsapubs.org/content/90/11/1063.short

So the carbon coating is clearly a different substance from the rock and of course must have built up on it after it was carved. The dating 'assumes' negligible amounts of Thorium or a level similar to the local samples, but that is a reasonable assumption that has to be made - that there is no reason to suppose contamination if there no evident contamination source. While there is always room for error or unknown factors, the whole corroborative evidence comes together to build up a stronger dating picture.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-08-2011 at 06:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 06:30 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,082,088 times
Reputation: 2972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Thanks for the link. Interesting. I knew nothing about pediogenic coatings until now. I was wondering how they could differentiate between the age of the stone the statue was cut from and the age of the statue.
Dating is a fascinating and deep subject, and very complex. I heartily recommend reading about it. Alas very few people know much about it and the creationists on these forums like to lie about it and pretend it is wildly inaccurate or baseless/useless. The jailed criminal Kent Hovind for example likes to pretend that dating techniques are so wildly inaccurate that sampling one fossil twice proves that fossils can be anything from a few years old to a few millenia.

How we know the dates of things however is massively complicated and (to me at least) very interesting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top