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Old 09-08-2011, 11:35 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,244,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post

Just watch the next election...and what follows...you'll see.
Keep "pushing it", and it will play out the way it's always played out in history when "push came to shove" relative to this matter.
Wrong. The Constitution would have to be thrown out, and that's not going to happen unless the USA ceases to exist.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,145,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Wrong. The Constitution would have to be thrown out, and that's not going to happen unless the USA ceases to exist.
I think that was his point... toss the Constitution out (change it).
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:43 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,244,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I would rather live in a nation where the majority rules than one that is ruled by a minority.

Would you like me to give you a list of nations that are ruled by a minority? Many are called dictatorships. Some were/are called communist.
Pathetic weaksauce. Pulling out the red scare card? Puhleeeze. Atheists are a minority, yes. But we're not trying to "rule" anyone. All we're trying to do is prevent the majority from riding roughshod over the minority. As soon as the religious shut the eff up, keep their beliefs to themselves, and let people live the lives they wish to live, then you won't have to listen to us biyatch about them anymore.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:48 AM
 
9,134 posts, read 4,575,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Says Who? View Post
Whether people want to believe it or not you are exactly right.
I'm not even a christian, I've been an atheist since long before the new breed of idiots claimed it and turned it into some kind of pseudo religion.
They don't seem to understand that organized religion, when organized, is an unstoppable force. This whole anti christian movement is about to blow up in their faces.
I'm not saying whether its good or bad. I'm saying its going to happen.
The pendulum is about to start swinging back in the other direction.
I for one don't want to be around when things come full circle.
What are the things we're facing on the other side of the circle ?

Do you think we'll go back to prayer in school, have a constitutional amendment banning abortion, repeal laws protecting gays, outlaw pornography, ban birth control, enact religious tests for office ?
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:22 PM
 
6,647 posts, read 3,882,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
That has happened in Iran but not in the USA for 220+ years since the adoption of the Constitution. Why? Was America lacking in religiosity until now? Or is it that the religious corruption is finally showing its face now more than ever before?
I told you why.

Open mocking, taunting, and legal opposition has been ramped up...they have NEVER dealt with this level of imposition before. They always had enough of their "way" to be satisfied...but not lately.

They are about to "shove back"...BIGTIME! You'll see. Keep "pushing"...and you'll see even more.

People take great exception to having what they consider "sacred" disrespected. Some may not find any things/concepts to be "sacred"...but the vast majority does.

It's gonna be like Mike Tyson VS Michael Spinks: Spinks was vastly technically superior to Tyson...but Tyson was much more stout, and much more powerful. And most of all, MUCH meaner. Tyson was also mad that Spinks kept claiming he would "defeat" Tyson with his advantage of being "much smarter, and more technically sound"...and Tyson felt he was being disrespected. Hmmmmmmm...kinda sounds familiar, doesn't it? Anyway...Tyson just crushed Spinks, absolutely destroyed him, like he wasn't even there. THAT'S gonna be familiar sounding too, real soon!

Spoken and written words mean just about nothing, when it comes to determining what RULES and what DOMINATES in this world. Size, strength, and power is EVERYTHING...THAT'S REALITY! Take heed of that.

And, don't get on my case for saying this...I didn't make it that way...that's just the REALITY of "the way of the world".
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:26 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,400,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
And that understanding led them to institute a separation of church and state. They were well aware of the corrupting effects of religion and the whims of the majority.
Where was the "separation of church and state" instituted, specifically?

I do agree that they were aware of the "whims" of the majority and the fact that the country was composed of a wide variety of faith denominations and world views. "Corrupting effects" are certainly not limited to "religion."
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,145,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I told you why.

Open mocking, taunting, and legal opposition has been ramped up...they have NEVER dealt with this level of imposition before. They always had enough of their "way" to be satisfied...but not lately.
Compared to when? The biggest legal opposition to the religious whims of the majority came with the US Constitution. Do you think people were happy about it? Religious corruption has been ever present in the USA, and everywhere else before the USA came about. It is neither a new concept nor going away.

Quote:
They are about to "shove back"...BIGTIME! You'll see. Keep "pushing"...and you'll see even more.
I don't doubt that. Religiosity has plenty of history of violence and oppression. Fortunately, we can also trust the history of sanity being restored after lessons learned.

Quote:
People take great exception to having what they consider "sacred" disrespected. Some may not find any things/concepts to be "sacred"...but the vast majority does.
And they invite trouble when they start poking their nose into others' affairs. Why do you think religion should be mixed with politics again, if not for that very purpose?

Quote:
Spoken and written words mean just about nothing, when it comes to determining what RULES and what DOMINATES in this world. Size, strength, and power is EVERYTHING...THAT'S REALITY! Take heed of that.
So I must go back to my question... why has America been immune from becoming a theocracy for well over 200 years? The assumption that only recently the fundamentalists have been cornered for their beliefs and desire is ridiculous at its best. Even in 1800 religious extremism was at work... see them trying to ridicule and campaign against Thomas Jefferson by calling him an infidel, that he wasn't suitable for Presidential office since he wasn't a Christian. That attitude has existed for how long?
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,145,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Where was the "separation of church and state" instituted, specifically?
First Amendment. The guy who authored the amendment has explained the purpose. You had an opportunity to read and understand his views on mixing of religion and politics (above), and him being specific about that aspect used in framing the constitution. Why not take advantage of that opportunity?

Quote:
I do agree that they were aware of the "whims" of the majority and the fact that the country was composed of a wide variety of faith denominations and world views. "Corrupting effects" are certainly not limited to "religion."
On religious matters, yes it is the only corrupting factor. Religion is the greatest driver to a mob mentality, collectivism to a common cause, in my opinion. It is why totalitarianism either uses it (see Hitler and Khumeini) or sees it as an enemy (Lenin, Mao). In America, chances of the former aren't just greater, but the corruption is very much visible to any thinking person.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,197,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
A very thoughtful assessment.

Dare I suggest that the Founders actually understood that the world views of the majority would, by necessity, influence the world views of the government. In other words, those in the majority would be in a position to create laws (imposition) comporting to their world view.
And that is exactly why the constitution of the USA was designed as it is. It's a document that attempts to prevent the tyranny of the majority. It has it's good points and it's bad. The bad has just been well illustrated during the first bit of the present administration. Even though the democrats had control of the congress and the white house they could not just jam through any measures they wanted to. The good is that this does prevent the tyranny and the bad is that it's almost impossible to get anything accomplished.

Here in Canada by contrast we have a majority conservative government right now. Let's say that they recieved 51% of the vote and only 60% of the people voted. They have the support of 30.5% of the people. In a parliamentary system the government with more than half the seats can do whatever they want to do and nothing but the constitution can stop them. There is a good recipe for the tyranny of the minority which is even worse than by the majority.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:51 PM
 
3,579 posts, read 2,659,937 times
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I would rather live in a nation where the majority rules, but where minority views are given the opportunity to voice their views/grievances and participate in governance. In fact, I wouldn't have it any other way.
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