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Old 09-08-2011, 01:55 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,448 posts, read 864,613 times
Reputation: 103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
First Amendment. The guy who authored the amendment has explained the purpose. You had an opportunity to read and understand his views on mixing of religion and politics (above), and him being specific about that aspect used in framing the constitution. Why not take advantage of that opportunity?
...and where does the term "separation of church and state" appear in any of the founding documents?

I have already taken advantage of learning opportunities and continue to do so. Sorry, but if I'm to avail myself of any learning opportunities from you, it will take considerably more than a simple offering of your opinion. So far, all I have is your opinion about a quote from a dead supposedly 'racist' supposedly homophobic supposedly intolerant founding white guy.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,448 posts, read 864,613 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
And that is exactly why the constitution of the USA was designed as it is. It's a document that attempts to prevent the tyranny of the majority. It has it's good points and it's bad. The bad has just been well illustrated during the first bit of the present administration. Even though the democrats had control of the congress and the white house they could not just jam through any measures they wanted to. The good is that this does prevent the tyranny and the bad is that it's almost impossible to get anything accomplished.

Here in Canada by contrast we have a majority conservative government right now. Let's say that they recieved 51% of the vote and only 60% of the people voted. They have the support of 30.5% of the people. In a parliamentary system the government with more than half the seats can do whatever they want to do and nothing but the constitution can stop them. There is a good recipe for the tyranny of the minority which is even worse than by the majority.
If the majority of the electorate and the majority of the government in all branches determines to ignore the constitution, who's going to stop them?
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
30,992 posts, read 12,998,784 times
Reputation: 10985
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
...and where does the term "separation of church and state" appear in any of the founding documents?
So you also believe that the constitution is valid only if sentences appear verbatim. Well, ridiculousness is boundless.

May be ask James Madison when you have the opportunity on why he said...

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"

After all, nowhere in the constitution do those words exists verbatim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
If the majority of the electorate and the majority of the government in all branches determines to ignore the constitution, who's going to stop them?
Illustrate how this would happen, and why it hasn't in 200+ years. Thank you.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:02 PM
 
3,300 posts, read 1,481,550 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
That sounds a lot like the threats Al Qaeda makes against western "Cursaders". Congratulations.
You and Merc Cougar are simply verifying my point for me.

What are you congratulating?

The Fundie Islamists are a perfect example of the way the religious act when they catch an attitude.

My posts are not "veiled threats"...it's the realistic acknowledgment of UNFORTUNATELY how the world REALLY IS.
Pretending it's not...and instigating things with what you KNOW the religious see as mocking and insults...will get you where it's always gotten the minority that have followed that course in human history.

It in no way has my endorsement...MOF it has my condemnation...but that doesn't change the fact that I'm hip to it.

You can delude yourself into thinking that's not the way it is...at your peril. I use good-sense and wisdom to be more aware and prepared than that.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,040 posts, read 6,669,525 times
Reputation: 6494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Let's just hope they don't make the mistake of pushing their own religious agenda into politics.
No worries about that MC. We had our own constitution long before the United States had its constitution and it is still in affect to this day and if you get a chance you may want to read it, read number 99, under Religious Ceremonies Protected. Constitution of the Iroquois Nations GldnRule is well familiar with it....
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:05 PM
 
6,040 posts, read 6,004,704 times
Reputation: 3822
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I wish you guys would demand what is RIGHTFULLY YOURS...I'd stand with you, and back it with my life ptsum.
THAT would be something worth fighting for.

You already know what I think on this subject...I've posted my feelings on it dozens of times.

You know what I think of those so-called "Founding Fathers": What I think of them usurping the Constitution you showed me that was already in place, and installing their own...What I think of them building their society and government on the blood of the indigenous inhabitants and the sweat and blood of the people they enslaved. What I thi...Ahhhhhhh, I better stop before I go off on this.

Bottom Line: I agree with you 100%.
Ahh, the myth of the Noble Savage still lives, I see. Just fyi, native Americans had slaves, they murdered each other, they went to war for good and bad reasons, they raped and kidnapped, and they were human beings with human reactions, instincts, and motivations just like the rest of us. Hardly paragons of virtue that you hold them to be.

Do I think they deserved what happened to them? No. But I don't think the Chinese deserved to be enslaved to build the railways either, and I don't think the Irish deserved indentured servitude, and I don't think black people deserved to be captured by their own neighboring tribes and sold to slavers, either.

It's human nature that the strong and/or advanced culture tends to push out the primitive, weak culture. When this happens, the weak either adapt to survive, or they suffer. Native Americans currently have a lot of opportunity from this country because of their heritage that a non-native American child doesn't have. If they don't take advantage of those opportunities, how am I to blame? How are any of us to blame? There is nobody alive left to blame.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,448 posts, read 864,613 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
So you also believe that the constitution is valid only if sentences appear verbatim. Well, ridiculousness is boundless.

May be ask James Madison when you have the opportunity on why he said...

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"

After all, nowhere in the constitution do those words exists verbatim.
Thank you very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Illustrate how this would happen, and why it hasn't in 200+ years. Thank you.
There are all sorts of examples in history of the constitution being ignored. One of the latest and greatest would be "McCain Feingold."
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:06 PM
 
6,040 posts, read 6,004,704 times
Reputation: 3822
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
No worries about that MC. We had our own constitution long before the United States had its constitution and it is still in affect to this day and if you get a chance you may want to read it, read number 99, under Religious Ceremonies Protected. Constitution of the Iroquois Nations GldnRule is well familiar with it....
You, as in your tribe you mean. Your constitution did not cover the entire continent of native people.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
30,992 posts, read 12,998,784 times
Reputation: 10985
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Thank you very much.
That tells me my post went way above your head.

Quote:
There are all sorts of examples in history of the constitution being ignored. One of the latest and greatest would be "McCain Feingold."
Prove it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
The Fundie Islamists are a perfect example of the way the religious act when they catch an attitude.
And they would stop being fundies if the rest play to their tune.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Earth
1,048 posts, read 1,186,584 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
You and Merc Cougar are simply verifying my point for me.

What are you congratulating?

The Fundie Islamists are a perfect example of the way the religious act when they catch an attitude.

My posts are not "veiled threats"...it's the realistic acknowledgment of UNFORTUNATELY how the world REALLY IS.
Pretending it's not...and instigating things with what you KNOW the religious see as mocking and insults...will get you where it's always gotten the minority that have followed that course in human history.

It in no way has my endorsement...MOF it has my condemnation...but that doesn't change the fact that I'm hip to it.

You can delude yourself into thinking that's not the way it is...at your peril. I use good-sense and wisdom to be more aware and prepared than that.
Well if that were true than blacks would still be riding at the back of the bus and there would still be white only bathrooms.

Last edited by Aeroman; 09-08-2011 at 02:20 PM.. Reason: If atheism was a color they would have prevented us from using God only bathrooms.
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