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Old 09-15-2011, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
a story about marriage equality in New York came on, which included a photograph of two men kissing at their marriage ceremony. This is apparently sufficiently revolting to Buell to give him difficulty holding down his dinner.
I'll admit I can't stand seeing that either but it's really none of my business what two gay men do, is it? When people make their personal preference a perceived objective moral standard that's a problem for sure.

I thank God I have the ability to separate what is my natural revulsion and what is morally good or evil. Also - it's a personal challenge for me not to reject someone based on my natural unpleasant reaction to something which in reality doesn't violate my core values.
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,338 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Here we go again with the No True Scotsman fallacy. I do wish you guys would come up with a new defense once in a while.
Isn't it a good thing (for the world) though that Christianity has evolved to where the Fred Phelps mentality is frowned upon by the majority?

Yes, I do understand the problems inherent with just about all religious beliefs - but you see what I'm saying?
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,658 posts, read 7,502,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
I'll admit I can't stand seeing that either but it's really none of my business what two gay men do, is it? When people make their personal preference a perceived objective moral standard that's a problem for sure.

I thank God I have the ability to separate what is my natural revulsion and what is morally good or evil. Also - it's a personal challenge for me not to reject someone based on my natural unpleasant reaction to something which in reality doesn't violate my core values.

Wow! Reps to you, my friend. From an agnostic to (assumedly) a Christian, I say to you: "Well said!"

Now, if only more religious folks felt the same way you do, firstborn....


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Old 09-16-2011, 04:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,338 times
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Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Wow! Reps to you, my friend. From an agnostic to (assumedly) a Christian, I say to you: "Well said!"

Now, if only more religious folks felt the same way you do, firstborn....


I was a "Christian" minister for 30 years but have always had universalist beliefs (which I learned early on were frowned upon by traditional Christianity). I've also always shunned the title "religious" having believed/understood my spiritual experiences to have been real as opposed to anything traditional.

I am a former atheist so I appreciate that viewpoint as well - especially their criticisms of religion. I try to stay open and am even willing to question the validity of my own spiritual experiences. I try and see all people as simply - people, as opposed to dividing them up into groups.

I believe the vast majority of humans want the same thing: peace and security. But many evil agendas and systems use human weaknesses (fear/insecurity/ego) as a tool to separate us from sane ideas (such as world peace and a lack of vengeful/angry creators).
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:23 AM
 
35,058 posts, read 9,073,081 times
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Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
I was a "Christian" minister for 30 years but have always had universalist beliefs (which I learned early on were frowned upon by traditional Christianity). I've also always shunned the title "religious" having believed/understood my spiritual experiences to have been real as opposed to anything traditional.

I am a former atheist so I appreciate that viewpoint as well - especially their criticisms of religion. I try to stay open and am even willing to question the validity of my own spiritual experiences. I try and see all people as simply - people, as opposed to dividing them up into groups.

I believe the vast majority of humans want the same thing: peace and security. But many evil agendas and systems use human weaknesses (fear/insecurity/ego) as a tool to separate us from sane ideas (such as world peace and a lack of vengeful/angry creators).
Interesting. Given that everyone was a former atheist (until taught a religion) I garner the idea that you professed atheism at one time until you became a Christian minister for 30 years.

On the Atheism thread we sometimes post deconversion stories. I am interested enough to invite you to post your story of conversion there so we can see how it came about. And to return to our muttons:

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
I'll admit I can't stand seeing that either but it's really none of my business what two gay men do, is it? When people make their personal preference a perceived objective moral standard that's a problem for sure.

I thank God I have the ability to separate what is my natural revulsion and what is morally good or evil. Also - it's a personal challenge for me not to reject someone based on my natural unpleasant reaction to something which in reality doesn't violate my core values.
I thank logic for it but I now have no problem with separating my personal likes and dislikes from what I believe should be rational legal requirements to which we should all sign up.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,338 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Interesting. Given that everyone was a former atheist (until taught a religion) I garner the idea that you professed atheism at one time until you became a Christian minister for 30 years.

On the Atheism thread we sometimes post deconversion stories. I am interested enough to invite you to post your story of conversion there so we can see how it came about. And to return to our muttons:

I thank logic for it but I now have no problem with separating my personal likes and dislikes from what I believe should be rational legal requirements to which we should all sign up.
Bottom line is we can both have the same thought and behavioral result on this issue whether we believe in a higher power or not. That's why I changed the way I categorize people.

I was taught religion early and completely rejected it. I have often thought of posting my story in the atheism section as I am not afraid to have my beliefs challenged or to abandon certain beliefs which turn out to be false. For example - it can be argued that even though I consciously rejected theism that the ideas were planted and came back in a different form later.

In any case - I'm ALWAYS trying to deconvert as it keeps me honest. I was never a "regular" Christian so scientific challenges to biblical accounts are irrelevant to me. So far I cannot embrace the idea that there is no divine order to our existence.

One thing atheists and I still have in common is the rejection of the validity religious institutions beyond their sociological value - especially those which claim a a knowledge of absolute truth.
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