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Old 09-09-2011, 10:54 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,740,983 times
Reputation: 1351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Our pastor pays ~23% of his gross salary (very low six figures) in federal income tax.
Holy crap! I've been saying for years now I need to start a church. I'm out here providing tangible services in the real world and I am no where near six figures. In fact, I am closer to four figures than I am to six figures and some of these ministers are selling invisible promises and making a killing for about 2 hours of work per weekend. I'm DEFINITELY in the wrong line of work. Then again, these guys are just glorified motivational speakers.
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Old 09-09-2011, 11:00 PM
 
15,727 posts, read 9,208,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The ones I've been involved with don't operate "for profit". All money received goes towards operation.
Maybe the one's you've worked with, but considering how many mega church pastors and televangelists like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers are riding around in private jets, with multi-million dollar mansions, it's obvious they are abusing the system.

There is a mega church in Los Angeles who spent over a million dollars just for the gold doors to enter the building. Do you know how many starving children in Africa you could feed with what they spent on freakin doors to a church?

They are suckering gullible believers into a multi-million dollar business.
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Old 09-09-2011, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
15,320 posts, read 8,318,313 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Holy crap! I've been saying for years now I need to start a church. I'm out here providing tangible services in the real world and I am no where near six figures. In fact, I am closer to four figures than I am to six figures and some of these ministers are selling invisible promises and making a killing for about 2 hours of work per weekend. I'm DEFINITELY in the wrong line of work.
Let's examine, shall we?

Are you on call 24/7? Are you ever awoken in the middle of the night to minister to a family who's loved one is near death? Have you ever been called home from your vacation to do a funeral service? Do you spend your off days conducting weddings (most couples want to be married on Saturday night)? When's the last time you went to Haiti or Africa to help the poor? How many evenings do you spend counseling, after a full work day? I could go on, but you get the picture. Our pastor easily works 60/week on average.

You may not respect the work of a pastor, but it's not an easy job by any means. In today's world, a salary of $120,000/year is not that much, especially for someone who leads an organization of 4000 people and a budget of $4.5 million.
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Old 09-09-2011, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
15,320 posts, read 8,318,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Maybe the one's you've worked with, but considering how many mega church pastors and televangelists like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers are riding around in private jets, with multi-million dollar mansions, it's obvious they are abusing the system.

There is a mega church in Los Angeles who spent over a million dollars just for the gold doors to enter the building. Do you know how many starving children in Africa you could feed with what they spent on freakin doors to a church?

They are suckering gullible believers into a multi-million dollar business.
The only one I'm familiar with is Joel Osteen's church in Houston. I'm not sure he has a private jet-I know he's talked many times about flying commercial. Maybe you can provide a link.

Are you aware what all his ministry/church does for the needy?

Cookies | Joel Osteen Ministries

Rick Warren, a pastor of a mega-church in LA, does reverse-tithing. He keeps 10% of his salary, and gives 90% away.

Do you have a link on that church with the golden doors? I'm wondering what kind of church it is.
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Old 09-09-2011, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,938 posts, read 9,728,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I'm DEFINITELY in the wrong line of work. Then again, these guys are just glorified motivational speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post

They are suckering gullible believers into a multi-million dollar business.
"Money for nothin' and your chicks for free."

What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an imaginary hell.
-- H L Mencken
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Old 09-09-2011, 11:48 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,740,983 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Let's examine, shall we?

Are you on call 24/7? Are you ever awoken in the middle of the night to minister to a family who's loved one is near death? Have you ever been called home from your vacation to do a funeral service? Do you spend your off days conducting weddings (most couples want to be married on Saturday night)? When's the last time you went to Haiti or Africa to help the poor? How many evenings do you spend counseling, after a full work day? I could go on, but you get the picture. Our pastor easily works 60/week on average.

You may not respect the work of a pastor, but it's not an easy job by any means. In today's world, a salary of $120,000/year is not that much, especially for someone who leads an organization of 4000 people and a budget of $4.5 million.
How many assistants (ministers) does he have? In big churches like those, they have boards and hordes of ministers to delegate all kinds of other responsibilities to. I WISH I could fly to Haiti and Africa and help the poor on a church's money. Great way to see the world for free and besides, I'm sure those ministers are not sleeping in the dumps with those people. They are probably staying at some palace of a hotel ON the church's money.
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,054 posts, read 30,829,960 times
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The church brought in $80m last year. Osteen is personally wealthy: after his first book sold 5m copies, rumours swirled that he received an eight-figure advance for his second. Even tithing 10% still leaves him with an immense chunk of change.

Yup, I guess I got into the wrong business too...A famous quote from P.T. Barnum would be appropriate here...You know the one I mean.
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,119 posts, read 20,256,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury cougar View Post
great article with salient points on the topic of removing tax exemption from churches.

real shared sacrifice: It's time for churches to pay taxes

"it is finally the time to eliminate the tax-exempt, non-profit status of every church in america whether it is the vile southern baptist convention affiliates, islamic mosques, jewish tabernacles or buddhist monasteries. At the same time, the tax code must be revised to eliminate the double-dipping statutes that allow the clergy to avoid paying the same rate of income tax as the rest of the american population. Religion has taken welfare from the american people long enough and with communities laying off fire fighters, police officers, and school teachers while struggling to make ends meet, churches of every denomination are enjoying government entitlements working americans never receive."
yup
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Old 09-10-2011, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,921,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
No. Churches are a business, they should be taxed like anyone else.

I think there are more local small churchs that net less than 25,000 a year, than are those popular churchs that net over 100,000 a year. I understand both poor and rich are taxed, but in the orginal seperation of church and state in the consitution, the intent was to not mix the two; and give the churchs a tax break. Its these mega million making churchs that gives that orginal intent a need for revison, but I don't think small time churchs need to be included in that.
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,054 posts, read 30,829,960 times
Reputation: 12226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
I think there are more local small churchs that net less than 25,000 a year, than are those popular churchs that net over 100,000 a year. I understand both poor and rich are taxed, but in the orginal seperation of church and state in the consitution, the intent was to not mix the two; and give the churchs a tax break. Its these mega million making churchs that gives that orginal intent a need for revison, but I don't think small time churchs need to be included in that.
I don't believe a tax break for churches was included in the constitution...I'm not even sure what taxes existed back then.
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