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Old 08-27-2017, 01:40 PM
 
15,103 posts, read 7,591,573 times
Reputation: 1982

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
no one is asking anyone to love evil.

the huge disconnect his post has identified quite accurately (and again i applaud the post for its honesty) is between

"god is love" "god is everything"

and

"all that I see in the world around me including evil"

that is what he seeks to reconcile


what is missing is
"how do I do this"
and also
"how can this possibly be"
And you think that a book written thousands of years ago explains satisfactorily how to reconcile a God who is love with the existence of evil. Is that what you are saying?
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:40 PM
 
12,548 posts, read 13,159,571 times
Reputation: 8952
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are correct. I misspoke because of my extreme frustration over the disconnect. I certainly HOPE it is not forever or beyond my reach. That is why I have faith, hope, and love.
It is absolutely correct, healthy, and normal to feel frustrated with the disconnect you have accurately and wisely identified. Don't let anyone ever talk you out of your honestly stated feelings.


Nothing changes until something changes.
How many decades has it been?
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:44 PM
 
37,649 posts, read 25,348,785 times
Reputation: 5865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
no one is asking anyone to love evil.
the huge disconnect his post has identified quite accurately (and again i applaud the post for its honesty) is between
"god is love" "god is everything"
and
"all that I see in the world around me including evil"
that is what he seeks to reconcile
what is missing is
"how do I do this"
and also
"how can this possibly be"
This is also an accurate expression of my frustration over my failings, especially my difficulty in loving those who do evil of any kind. It is not that "how I do this" is missing. Love of God and each other is how we do it. It is that my ability to love seems inadequate at this time. Having experienced the unconditional love and acceptance, I know that it IS and how it can be but have difficulty reconciling it with the conditions of our reality.
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:44 PM
 
12,548 posts, read 13,159,571 times
Reputation: 8952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
And you think that a book written thousands of years ago explains satisfactorily how to reconcile a God who is love with the existence of evil. Is that what you are saying?
no, that is not what i am saying.
those are your words, your thoughts
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:49 PM
 
15,103 posts, read 7,591,573 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
no, that is not what i am saying.
those are your words, your thoughts
It is my understanding of your post, and it's wonderful if I'm mistaken about what you are saying, because that makes no sense.

So, please, do explain yourself.
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:43 PM
 
12,548 posts, read 13,159,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
It is my understanding of your post, and it's wonderful if I'm mistaken about what you are saying, because that makes no sense.

So, please, do explain yourself.
my point is that if a person does not seek and utilize help, then they stay stuck where they are

help in understanding
help in reconciling seeming contradictions
help in exploring big questions
help with emotions such as hate
help in relating to others
help in relating to our own self

we are not meant to do it by ourself
anymore than a preschooler is meant to be shut in a classroom and told to teach yourself to read, write, do math and get a high school diploma

i will say it again
it is cruel to ask anyone including ourselves to
"love"
without telling them "how to do that" and giving them tools to address all the parts to that: the emotional piece, the intellectual ideas, the beliefs about God, the problem solving.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:08 PM
 
15,103 posts, read 7,591,573 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
my point is that if a person does not seek and utilize help, then they stay stuck where they are

help in understanding
help in reconciling seeming contradictions
help in exploring big questions
help with emotions such as hate
help in relating to others
help in relating to our own self

we are not meant to do it by ourself
anymore than a preschooler is meant to be shut in a classroom and told to teach yourself to read, write, do math and get a high school diploma

i will say it again
it is cruel to ask anyone including ourselves to
"love"
without telling them "how to do that" and giving them tools to address all the parts to that: the emotional piece, the intellectual ideas, the beliefs about God, the problem solving.
The God who is love is within us all, teaching each of us. AND, we're all in this together, learning from each other's experiences as well. Lots of books have been written, lots of examples have been lived and are being lived. No one is in this alone or without help.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:22 PM
 
10,582 posts, read 4,181,150 times
Reputation: 1195
for me, when you can "Kill" without malice.
No malice is not the same as indifference.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:39 PM
 
12,548 posts, read 13,159,571 times
Reputation: 8952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
The God who is love is within us all, teaching each of us. AND, we're all in this together, learning from each other's experiences as well. Lots of books have been written, lots of examples have been lived and are being lived. No one is in this alone or without help.
you do realize this sounds like the cults who say don't go to the doctor

you are not giving good counsel when you tell people to avoid seeking help

doctors
counselors
therapists
12-step groups
psycholgists


are very different from talking to friends and reading books.

it is alarming that you do not see the difference and that you counsel someone to disregard their feelings.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:42 PM
 
15,103 posts, read 7,591,573 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
you do realize this sounds like the cults who say don't go to the doctor

you are not giving good counsel when you tell people to avoid seeking help

doctors
counselors
therapists
12-step groups
psycholgists


are very different from talking to friends and reading books.

it is alarming that you do not see the difference and that you counsel someone to disregard their feelings.


I didn't say anything about avoiding seeking help. I said we are not alone.
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