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Old 09-21-2011, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 577,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Shalom...are you speaking from a position of neutrality? If so, that boat can only float in calm waters for a short period of time.
Sooner or later your "striving not to strive" will be inundated by a tsunami and you'll find yourself on one side or the other.
Notwithstanding, concerning your "neutral" albeit vague and unsupportable allegation of "copy, paste, and print" by the Apostle Paul, Jesus declared..."All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." (John) 10:8 KJV...
Who was he referring to when he said "all that ever came before me" ?

The prophets who supposedly predicted and described his coming?
I'm probably wrong in thinking that...but could you tell me what that means exactly?

I'm actually speaking from a standpoint of skepticism at this point, regarding the Mithra thing. Like I said, I stumbled upon that by accident while looking up Alexandria.

On a side note...I have found that when I pray to the Father, my prayers are answered far more often, and I feel more of a sense of inner peace. Jesus himself said to pray to the Father (The Lord's Prayer) I also question the Gospel of John for certain reasons...but the verdict is still out on that for me.
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 577,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
You don't need Robert Langon to solve this conspiracy. OF COURSE it was made up!!!

The fact is, Paul himself was a minor player in the whole game of Christianity; he never got it past backwater cult status. Constantine would be the guy I credit as the person who made the best use of a good story, and later European rulers followed his example to solidify and cement their control of the simple-minded across Europe; until people finally woke up and started thinking for themselves during the Renaissance. Still, it's taken more than 500 years and we still aren't done with the farce.

Christianity has never been about the truth; it's about culture... and control. Jesus wasn't called the King of kings by accident; his story is meant to influence people to accept, follow and even worship real kings under the false precept that they were preordained by some higher power to generally be fat, selfish and murderous bastards.

We would never bow to these guys today:






The Smart Set: The Vatican Hall of Shame - May 11, 2010

But so many don't see a problem bowing to the tool those same men (and many others) created and refined over centuries to protect/increase their own power:
I'm having a busy week, but i will get to this and ALL the other posts whe I can, and give my response!!

Your perspective is very interesting. I have thought at times that the end time prophecy material is especially useful to the powers that be, that want us to just do nothing and allow them to enslave us. Then again...I still know there is a real God, and a spiritual war going on...which is coming to a head. All of it is just so..PARADOXICAL...as if it was designed to be that way.

I am going to study all of the material presented and I'm also doing a lot of other reading on the subject. Be back soon!
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 577,888 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Shalom...are you speaking from a position of neutrality? If so, that boat can only float in calm waters for a short period of time.
Sooner or later your "striving not to strive" will be inundated by a tsunami and you'll find yourself on one side or the other.
Notwithstanding, concerning your "neutral" albeit vague and unsupportable allegation of "copy, paste, and print" by the Apostle Paul, Jesus declared..."All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." (John) 10:8 KJV...
Actually...I think I see the point you were making now with "the sheep did not hear them." You mean to say that if Paul weren't a true apostle...that the sheep would not have heard him?

I can't accept that one..because some of the people who I know who love Christ the most, are the ones that can most easily see the contradictions between Christ's theology and Paul's. I myself have a list about 10 feet long (seriously) in a text file. I could write a HUGE book on the subject.

Also...the path of salvation is so narrow...that not everyone who says "Lord lord" will actually make it. Not all people actually "hear" Jesus' words either...and that doesn't disqualify him from being the Messiah...so it shouldn't be a criterion for the ones before him. A weird thing for him to say...unless in fact it means something different.

I've come to realize recently there are many instances where Jesus actually does contradict himself...or seems to have bipolar attitudes. I've read some of the attempts at explanations...and they don't wash at all. And the more I find out...the more disturbed I become about the whole thing.

The more pieces of this puzzle that I have at my disposal..the more fishy it gets.

I would like to get into this more...and I will...but I gotta jam right now. For the moment, look at the book of Ezekiel if you will. God calls Ezekiel "son of man" over 80 times in the book.

So the Gospel of John can claim (30-50 years after the other books) that Jesus was the only begotten son...but not the only begotten "son of man."

(Also, if Jesus was implying that Ezekiel was a thief and a robber...I think that's a problem!)

Last edited by TwoWitnesses; 09-21-2011 at 07:51 PM..
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:45 PM
 
1,220 posts, read 749,800 times
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Default The Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses View Post
Who was he referring to when he said "all that ever came before me" ?

The prophets who supposedly predicted and described his coming?
I'm probably wrong in thinking that...but could you tell me what that means exactly?

I'm actually speaking from a standpoint of skepticism at this point, regarding the Mithra thing. Like I said, I stumbled upon that by accident while looking up Alexandria.

On a side note...I have found that when I pray to the Father, my prayers are answered far more often, and I feel more of a sense of inner peace. Jesus himself said to pray to the Father (The Lord's Prayer) I also question the Gospel of John for certain reasons...but the verdict is still out on that for me.
Shalom...I always put "John" in parenthesis when quoting from The Gospel Testimony of Jesus beloved disciple, because I know for a Scriptural fact that the Apostle John did not write The Fourth Gospel, nor was he Jesus beloved disciple. What are your reasons for "questioning" The Gospel of Christ ?
...peas and hominy...
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:02 PM
 
1,220 posts, read 749,800 times
Reputation: 122
Default The Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses View Post
Actually...I think I see the point you were making now with "the sheep did not hear them." You mean to say that if Paul weren't a true apostle...that the sheep would not have heard him?

I can't accept that one..because some of the people who I know who love Christ the most, are the ones that can most easily see the contradictions between Christ's theology and Paul's. I myself have a list about 10 feet long (seriously) in a text file. I could write a HUGE book on the subject.

Also...the path of salvation is so narrow...that not everyone who says "Lord lord" will actually make it. Not all people actually "hear" Jesus' words either...and that doesn't disqualify him from being the Messiah...so it shouldn't be a criterion for the ones before him. A weird thing for him to say...unless in fact it means something different.

I've come to realize recently there are many instances where Jesus actually does contradict himself...or seems to have bipolar attitudes. I've read some of the attempts at explanations...and they don't wash at all. And the more I find out...the more disturbed I become about the whole thing.

The more pieces of this puzzle that I have at my disposal..the more fishy it gets.

I would like to get into this more...and I will...but I gotta jam right now. For the moment, look at the book of Ezekiel if you will. God calls Ezekiel "son of man" over 80 times in the book.

So the Gospel of John can claim (30-50 years after the other books) that Jesus was the only begotten son...but not the only begotten "son of man."

(Also, if Jesus was implying that Ezekiel was a thief and a robber...I think that's a problem!)
Shalom...by all means pull out your tome of contradictions, and perhaps we might address all of your issues one foot at a time.
For certain the path of salvation is narrow, but any work apart from what Christ prescribed is simply not necessary...
"What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John) 6:28,29 KJV

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23 KJV

...not everyone because many who think that all of their hard work, and prophesying and casting out devils (of all sorts) will allow them to side step Jesus to be with the Father, but their unbelief in Jesus whom The Father sent will not allow them in.
Thus those who are found in unbelief in G-d's only Adopted Son will not be allowed in. So by reason of their unbelief in the love of G-d's Christ do they judge themselves unworthy of The Father's Love.

If you're disturbed over seeming contradictions of G-d's Word, consider well him who suffered such contradiction of sinners..."Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye." Ezekiel 18:25-32 KJV

Ezekiel was a "type" pointing back to him whom G-d took, and pointing foward to him whom G-d returned. Do you like cherries ?
The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you joy...
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,842 posts, read 4,066,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingDavid8 View Post
Thanks, but I've been going through that book and it doesn't even address most of the Mithra claims from the page Woodrow linked. It doesn't say he was born on 12/25, doesn't say he had twelve companions or disciples, doesn't say he was a great traveling teacher and master, doesn't say he was buried in a tomb, doesn't say he rose again after 3 days, doesn't say he was resurrected, doesn't say he was called "the good shepherd", "the way, the truth and the light", "redeemer", "savior", or "messiah", and makes no mention of his sacred day being Sunday prior to Jesus' time (only after).

Want to try again?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, you might find it interesting to read "Pagan Christ" by John M. Robertson
If you don't want to read the whole book then just Part III is about Mithra and how Christanity are very similar.
Heres the link: Pagan Christs: Title Page
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:32 AM
 
307 posts, read 226,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, you might find it interesting to read "Pagan Christ" by John M. Robertson
If you don't want to read the whole book then just Part III is about Mithra and how Christanity are very similar.
Heres the link: Pagan Christs: Title Page
Once again, it doesn't address most of the Christ-myth Mithra "similarities", and it also agrees that most of the (few) valid similarities are in Roman Mithraism, which is post-Christian. If you look at what Robertson argues were actually borrowed from pre-Christian Mithraism, you don't find much.

Why is it so hard to back up the idea that all of these Mithra similarities that people claim, were actually part of the pre-Christian Mithra story? Could it be that, as with Horus, Attis, Buddha, Krishna, Dionysus, etc., most of the claims are a bunch of b.s.?
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 577,888 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Shalom...I always put "John" in parenthesis when quoting from The Gospel Testimony of Jesus beloved disciple, because I know for a Scriptural fact that the Apostle John did not write The Fourth Gospel, nor was he Jesus beloved disciple. What are your reasons for "questioning" The Gospel of Christ ?
...peas and hominy...
I've been thinking he didn't write it either. It also seems strange to refer to the "disciple Jesus loved." It doesn't sound right for one..since he loved all of them..and it makes the source sound like he was trying to convince us to accept the book,.

I actually don't question the Gospel of Christ in its intended message so much as aspects of each of the accounts. There are many...and I'm short on time until a little later in the day...but let's start with the 12 lines that were added to the end of Mark (regarding the ascension). This is also the oldest Gospel.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 577,888 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Shalom...by all means pull out your tome of contradictions, and perhaps we might address all of your issues one foot at a time.
For certain the path of salvation is narrow, but any work apart from what Christ prescribed is simply not necessary...
"What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John) 6:28,29 KJV

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23 KJV

...not everyone because many who think that all of their hard work, and prophesying and casting out devils (of all sorts) will allow them to side step Jesus to be with the Father, but their unbelief in Jesus whom The Father sent will not allow them in.
Thus those who are found in unbelief in G-d's only Adopted Son will not be allowed in. So by reason of their unbelief in the love of G-d's Christ do they judge themselves unworthy of The Father's Love.

If you're disturbed over seeming contradictions of G-d's Word, consider well him who suffered such contradiction of sinners..."Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye." Ezekiel 18:25-32 KJV

Ezekiel was a "type" pointing back to him whom G-d took, and pointing foward to him whom G-d returned. Do you like cherries ?
The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you joy...
Ok...there will be a lot of material to cover here.

Firstly...about Christ being the only way: This can't be true because John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit since he was in the womb, and didn't know Christ as he was growing up. He came to God completely and lived a very modest and self-sacrificial life. So it shows we CAN have salvation. (John didn't even become a disciple of Christ). The Psalms and Proverbs (and other books) are filled with references to things like this...and how certain types of people seek the Lord. "The father draw them." This idea that after Christ was crucified, that this gift was taken away from us seems ridiculous to me. Christ also said he came "not to save the righteous, but sinners." Though all have sinned, some will actively seek God, and others need to be helped in order to find their way. Very indoctrinated people who haven't done their own study of scripture or comparative religion can be easily duped into thinking we are all lost without Christ, and that those of other cultures who have their own way of finding love and truth are going to burn in hell...but this isn't the case. Even Christ said "i am not sent, but to the lost sheep from the house of israel" and originally called one of the Gentiles a dog...but then eventually healed her anyway, and later came to have a more magnanimous attitude about helping the gentiles. He had to step outside his own indoctrination to see the bigger picture.

The Jews have some VERY good reasons also, for not accepting Christ as their messiah. We have been indoctrinated to think it's because they were just mean and evil..but that isn't the case. With some of them yes..

About that highlighted part above...there are serious contradictions in the Old Testament regarding the nature of God. God wanted blood on the altar in the days of Moses...but Isaiah tells us that God (speaking through him) is not pleased with such things. WE can take the intended spirit of the scriptures and apply them lovingly...but the more you really look into it, the more contradictions you find. This is probably why preachers want us to sit while they flip around to different scriptures in the book. Depending on how you do it, you can create all kinds of different impressions, that aren't necessarily true.

Back soon!
Peace and love,
Randy
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 577,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Catholic encyclopedia seems to give a logical reason why it is so difficult to find out anything about Mithra



SOURCE
Thanks for the link brother!

NOW....how what about Horus? There are apparently some similarities to the Christian story with this as well...and coming from Ancient Egypt!

Does anyone know anything about this already? I have an article...and I will post excerpts momentarily...but I have yet to verify the contents.
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