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Old 09-20-2011, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,039 posts, read 30,710,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
You're absolutely right. I don't have a clue as to what it's like to be an atheist. So come on, tell me, why would it benefit me to believe as you do?
How can you not know what it's like to be an atheist? You are almost as much of an atheist as I am.

 
Old 09-20-2011, 11:51 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,263,079 times
Reputation: 8261
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Go ahead, this is the religion forum -- you can proselytize. How would atheism improve, strengthen, or otherwise change my life for the better?
Teach you the ability to reason, at which point you would discard your fantasies of god or gods and the other absurdities that religion fluffs up the whole charade with.

You have been duped by the greatest con job of all times, and remain so without the ability to reason your way out of the absurd fairy tale that holds your mind captive.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,374,411 times
Reputation: 5054
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Now it's offensive to ask an atheist what makes atheism so, well, rad and cool? You must be the cat that keeps reporting my posts to the moderators in the A/A Support Group...
No, it isn't offensive to ask without the sarcastic bent which you exhibit. I don't think atheism is "rad and cool". That is only your way of denigrating it, by inferring that atheists are atheists only because they find it "rad and cool". I've been an atheist for over 40 years. To paraphrase a country song, I was an atheist before atheism was cool.

I have never reported any of your posts. That is simply another assertion which you pose in order to harm my credibility by making me look like a crybaby. You'll not get me to report you to the moderators. That's a ploy hypersensitive theists are more likely to use, whining about how their god or religion was disrespected.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Western NC
651 posts, read 1,246,414 times
Reputation: 497
I'm going to give your questions a shot but, honestly, I'm not optimistic that you are actually interested in our answers for reasons I will get into later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy
If you look at the Atheist/Agnostic Support Group, you notice that they are simply obsessed with God, especially the Christian God. Of course, they are always attacking God, labling followers as fools, delusional, etc. I get that. But if they don't believe in God, why are 75% (conservatively) of their comments about God?

I mean, if they think belief in God is stupid, ridiculous, etc, why spend so much time on the subject. Your reading lists are about God, I mean, why bother? If I were an atheist, I wouldn't bother. What's the point? I'd be going fishing, watching a ball game, balancing my checkbook, for goodness sake -- God (or the lack thereof) would not even be on my horizon. Why are the atheists on this forum such one note Johnnies?

For atheists, you all do spend a lot of time on God. Why?
As already explained, this is the religion and philosophy forum. So, it follows that god/gods will be discussed. The christian god is discussed more frequently than others for several reasons and there are probably even more that I haven't thought about:

1. Christianity is the dominant religion in this country and influences our day to day lives more than any other religion. Your religion inserts itself into our politics, tries to impose laws based on biblical beliefs, and often discriminates against and shuns atheists. Examples include, attempts to insert religious beliefs into education, limiting scientific research based on beliefs, blue laws, anti-gay legislation, and the outright lies about atheists promoted by many religious groups, etc. And, let's not forget how often theists even intrude on our personal time by showing up on our doorsteps with their message. So, yeah, a lot of us have intense interest in a religion that negatively impacts our lives.

2. Many of us have come from religious backgrounds and often resent the brainwashing, fear-mongering, and, in some cases, abuse that we experienced at the hands of religion. Even those that did not have these experiences often resent the fact that they were duped into believing something that has no actual evidence to support it. Further, those that have shaken the shackles of religious belief often regret the thousands of dollars tithed and wasted time given to something they now believe is false. Here again, religion has an impact on lives and, yup, we talk about it. Also, due to the fact that many of us are from christian religious backgrounds, we obviously talk more about a subject we know more about.

3. It is imperative that we not allow anybody to be wrong on the internet. That's a fact; not really, but I love that joke. Honestly, many of us enjoy debate and it is ridiculously easy to poke holes in most religious beliefs. And, yes, there is satisfaction in helping those that might already be doubting their beliefs although most of us don't actively proselytize for atheism. Furthermore, debating these points online sharpens our skills so that we can be more effective when we inevitably come in contact with the pushy theist in real life.

4. Online forums are often an outlet for atheists that have no place to discuss these issues in real life.

5. Many just have an interest in religion and enjoy discussing it.

My question for you is, why have you appointed yourself as the arbiter of what is acceptable for us to discuss? I don't find the christianity forum very interesting as I think it's silly to seriously discuss fairy tales. But, I don't try to tell people that they aren't allowed to talk about it. I just rarely visit their sub-forum. So, why don't you take your own advice and go fishing or watch a ball game rather than spending your time complaining about conversations that you aren't forced to participate in? If you personally just don't like what we have to say, by all means, talk about it; most of us actually like the debate. If I take issue with something a theist says about atheists, I discuss it but I don't try to tell them that they aren't allowed to talk about us.

Further, many of the conversations we have in the atheist forum don't focus specifically on god as the main point. Often, we talk about why we became atheists, news items, personal experiences, provide answers for those with questions about atheism, discuss problems within our own movement.

In reference to what I said earlier, the reason I'm doubtful that you are really interested in our answers is that you ignore the answers already provided and continue to ask the same question over and over, "What is so great about being an atheist?" or something to that effect. At this point I really think you are just venting as the things we say offend you. And, I actually understand why that would frustrate you. But, if you really are just bored with us, I don't have much to say; here's a shrug and I'll move on. That's your opinion and I can't really rouse myself to care about something so trivial and subjective. At any rate, I'll give your question a shot anyway.

Before I begin, I need to stress that atheism is simply a lack of belief in god. Nothing more; it has no tenets and does not provide a philosophy for how to live one's life. The benefits I will discuss are side effects of my atheism and personal to me; although, you will probably find that many atheists share these same views.

For me, the number one benefit of being an atheist is not having my world view shackled by religious dogma. I'm free to explore the big questions in life without fearing the wrath of some god for questioning his error filled and ancient text. To me, the real universe is much grander and more awe inspiring than the universe described in the bible. Also, I enjoy being able to evaluate the morality of my choices based on rational criteria rather than allowing outdated and, often, immoral theist views affect my evaluation. I also appreciate my time spent here on earth more that I did when I was a theist as I believe that my life is finite. Finally, I value myself as good person and don't believe that I was born in sin.

I could say more but this post is already getting too long. I have no desire to proselytize to you and don't expect to change your beliefs. In fact, if you are happy and content with your beliefs, I'm glad for you. I only ask that those beliefs not be imposed on me.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,907,036 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
The boy goes to the girl's house because of a certain biological imperative...

Interesting theory though... god is the light bulb and atheists are the moths...and you would certainly be quick to spout a scripture that would parallel what happens to the moths in this analogy.

I guess we'd all better convert to save our asses and start ponying up at the collection plate too. God needs the dough, you see...

This is delusion, God is not " After Atheist", or anyother unbelievers. Hes not going to destroy either, both are garenteed salvation.

Atheist come to religious boards because of a certain biological imperitive; it was implanted by God, thats WHY it cannot be ignored within them.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,907,036 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
So true.

I found another of my old posts on the matter: http://www.city-data.com/forum/14057314-post391.html

I read this link. A profound prophecy.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 01:07 AM
 
6,642 posts, read 3,867,913 times
Reputation: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
It's not the sky god I am concerned about but that grown people believe that mythical beings exist, and actually base decisions on what they think their imaginary god wants them to do, or tells them to, like the outrageous stupidity of god telling the shrub to kill babies in Iraq with B52 bomb runs. The god that exists only in the head to those so completely deluded to believe in magic and absurdities are the greatest danger to the future of mankind.

There are no gods, but the fantasy that occupies the minds of people without the ability to see the absurdity are the threat. As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. -Voltair

Your god, or any other god is absolutely powerless, however one can never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers. "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."- Albert Einstein
So...you are worried about "the future of mankind" as respects the threat from "those so completely deluded to believe in magic and absurdities"?

Is that so?

And you figure spending thousands of hours critiquing/criticizing the beliefs of a couple dozen theist STRANGERS on some internet forum ...and "high fiving" and "repping" the others that join in on it...is reeeeeeeealy going to do a lot to "shield" from that threat?!!

WOW! And who was the genius that told you THIS FORUM is a good method/vehicle to focus thousands of hours of your life/effort on, if your implied goal was to achieve that end?!!

HaHaHaHaHa...give me a break!! Those that purport that they are on some kind of "mission" to keep "God and God-related" from "influencing our lives in a negative way"...and then further purport that's the "reason" they are here...implying they thought this was any sort of effective, or efficient, way to go about it...are either lying, or completely clueless.

You feel you see "the greatest danger to the future of mankind"?! WOW!
So, are we to view your thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands, of posts to this site as your primary way of trying to protect from that?!

WAIT!...NO!...NO WAY! Nobody with any sense what-so-ever, that was trying to do something, would pick a method that foolishly inefficient and ineffective. NOBODY is that clueless!

With your almost ELEVEN THOUSAND POSTS to this board Ash Nat, it is time for another award for--"Person that Spent the Most Time and Effort To Accomplish the Least of Their Goal".

But, Naaaaaaah!...you aren't fooling anybody. You just enjoy busting on people...and this is a way you've found to do it that you like.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,907,036 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
So...you are worried about "the future of mankind" as respects the threat from "those so completely deluded to believe in magic and absurdities"?

Is that so?

And you figure spending thousands of hours critiquing/criticizing the beliefs of a couple dozen theist STRANGERS on some internet forum ...and "high fiving" and "repping" the others that join in on it...is reeeeeeeealy going to do a lot to "shield" from that threat?!!

WOW! And who was the genius that told you THIS FORUM is a good method/vehicle to focus thousands of hours of your life/effort on, if your implied goal was to achieve that end?!!

HaHaHaHaHa...give me a break!! Those that purport that they are on some kind of "mission" to keep "God and God-related" from "influencing our lives in a negative way"...and then further purport that's the "reason" they are here...implying they thought this was any sort of effective, or efficient, way to go about it...are either lying, or completely clueless.

You feel you see "the greatest danger to the future of mankind"?! WOW!
So, are we to view your thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands, of posts to this site as your primary way of trying to protect from that?!

WAIT!...NO!...NO WAY! Nobody with any sense what-so-ever, that was trying to do something, would pick a method that foolishly inefficient and ineffective. NOBODY is that clueless!

With your almost ELEVEN THOUSAND POSTS to this board Ash Nat, it is time for another award for--"Person that Spent the Most Time and Effort To Accomplish the Least of Their Goal".

But, Naaaaaaah!...you aren't fooling anybody. You just enjoy busting on people...and this is a way you've found to do it that you like.

Oh my goodness; Very well written. I like that. Eventually Atheist must look at that mirror you just posted in front of them.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 02:09 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,068,929 times
Reputation: 2972
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
If you look at the Atheist/Agnostic Support Group, you notice that they are simply obsessed with God
You go to a forum that is specifically about a subject and you act surprised when people in that forum talk about that subject? Are you for real? Are you also shocked about how all the people in the Pub seem to like alcohol or all the people in the Supermarket seem obsessed with buying food? And wow, all those layers in the court rooms never shut up about the Law while all the people in Zoos simply never shut up about animals.

Get real. Seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
My point is, why not talk about world topics from an atheistic viewpoint? Why does everything have to be anti-God?
Because theists bring god into every part of their lives. Personal faith is not kept personal. They come into our halls of power, education and science and try to dictate laws and policies to us based on their thus far entirely... and I mean entirely... unsubstantiated idea that there is a god.

If someone was coming into our halls of power, education and science talking about how Elvis is still alive and trying to set law, policy and financial expenditure based on that unsubstantiated idea you would be guaranteed there would be forums set up that were Anti-Elvisism too.

So no, it is not that Atheists are obsessed with god. It is that theists are obsessed with god and Atheists have to work out how to cope in such a society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
give me reasons why a person would absolutely LOVE to be an atheist.
No because that is simply not what it is about. It is nothing about wanting to be an atheist or wanting to be a theist for us. That is just the straw man you have invented and so you want to have explained something that only exists in your head.

No for us it is simply the wish to point out and avoid unsubstantiated claims. I do not want to believe in god. I do not want to not believe in god. I simply want to look at the claim, see if there is a shred of evidence, argument, data or reasons to support it, and if not then I shall be forced to dismiss the claim as unsubstantiated.

Now GIVEN you have not got a shred of evidence, argument, data or reasons to support the claim there is a god, or even to lend it a modicum of credence, I dismiss the claim. It is not that I "want" to dismiss it. It is simply the right thing to do.
 
Old 09-21-2011, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,907,036 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
You go to a forum that is specifically about a subject and you act surprised when people in that forum talk about that subject? Are you for real? Are you also shocked about how all the people in the Pub seem to like alcohol or all the people in the Supermarket seem obsessed with buying food? And wow, all those layers in the court rooms never shut up about the Law while all the people in Zoos simply never shut up about animals.

Get real. Seriously.

I think Kiggy has an excellent point; all outward signs on religious message boards, clearly indicate that Atheist have an obession with God. Its academic. If it cost to be a member, the owners would make more money off of Atheist.
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