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Old 10-18-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Brussels, Belgium
971 posts, read 1,506,827 times
Reputation: 235

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Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
When some one begins to question the incident number & not the incident itself then you should know that the story is true in general
In 1912, a plane crashed. Therefore, planes cannot fly.
Quote:
What I noticed was that no one deny the falsification of evidence by some scientists , Instead you tried to reduce the number .
The point is that fake fossils do exist & they were made by scientists to fool the world & support the theory of evolution , If the theory does not need to be proven by falsify evidence then why did they do it ?
None of them were made to "support the theory of evolution". We're long past that point. The ToE has been fully accepted by the scientific community since the early 1900s. The frauds you mentioned, like most scientific frauds, were committed by individuals in search of fame and/or money.
Quote:
Why do many scientists remained silent about this fraud for many years ?
Are you claiming that some scientists (other than the ones committing the fraud in the first place) found out it was a fraud yet chose to remain silent? Evidence please.
Quote:
There are honest and dishonest people from both sides & as you can distinguish between honest & dishonest scientists We can also distinguish between honest & dishonest Muslims scientists .
Lying does not last long .
In the scientific community, sure. When a scientist is exposed as a fraud, the truth is made public and his career is ruined. You will not find a single scientific source out there using the Piltdown Man as anything other than a cautionary tale.

When a creationist is exposed as a fraud, very rarely does the creationist community acknowledge it. Most of the time, that creationist keeps his status, and many creationist websites will still display his hoaxes as if they were valid evidence.
Quote:
P.S : It does not matter where you took the information from , It is whether this information is true or not .
True. But I wanted to know the website so I could show you all the blatant lies that website contains. I have yet to see a creationist website that has none. Maybe then you'd think more critically about its informations.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:06 AM
 
570 posts, read 620,430 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
We know, but we try not to be too hard on believers. They've got lots of cultural and emotional baggage to overcome.
I dont know about other believers & I dont know how they feel but for Islam ... they have been trying so hard to Change our view about Islam for the last 1400 years & guess what ?
They only make it stronger ... so please joined them if you like too , you will only be a number add to a very long list !!
Quote:
Yep, scientists are an honest bunch. Too bad religion can't learn from that.
What scientists ?
Christians or atheists or Hindus or Jews or Muslims or Buddhists ?
There are all kind of them !!!
Some are honest & some aren't ...
There is what so-called scientific integrity & that is what I call honest .
Honest bunch is not the the correct expression here .
Quote:
Personal recognition, probably. But thanks for admitting that the undisputed evidence overwhelmingly proves that evolution is real
That Personal recognition at the end recorded on the name of science and scientists .
I said earlier I do not deny the theory in general, but I find some aspects of it funny and even stupid .
Quote:
Why do many scientists remained silent about this fraud for many years ?
Quote:
They didn't .
When some one discover a fossils, what is the procedure here ?
It must be examined from multiple and independent scientific sources before it presents to people as a Scientific discovery ..
Ok ... when a fossil shown to the world at science museum for 41 years and then later on discovered as a fraud then the doubt will reach to a lot of scientific sources which were supposed to exposed that fraud from the bigning & I'm not talking about a month or a year here !!
Quote:
Why the same thing keep coming from different people at different times ?
Quote:
They don't.
Lets see :
Piltdown man in (1912 ).
Archaeoraptor Liaoningensis (1999)
Nebraska man ( 1922)
Java man ( 1819 )
Orce man (1982 )
So ...
Quote:
Yes, religious people may be changing some of the facts too
And yet you reject evolution but not religion. Why the hypocrisy?
I reject both religion & evolution fraud evidence !!!
Where is the hypocrisy here ?
Quote:
In Islam it does not matter where you take the information from as long as it is true
Ignoring the fact that much of it wasn't true, here in the US, it matters a great bit if you pretend that someone else's work is actually your own.
It seems you did not understand what I meant here !!!
I said what mater is whether the information is true or not regardless of where I took that information from .
No one is saying anything about someone else's work as your own .

Last edited by squall-lionheart; 10-19-2011 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:05 AM
 
570 posts, read 620,430 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Roxolan
In 1912, a plane crashed. Therefore, planes cannot fly.
That plane didt crash ... it was a hoax !!
Quote:
None of them were made to "support the theory of evolution". We're long past that point.
Then could you please tell me what is the benefit of fossils discovery ?
Quote:
The ToE has been fully accepted by the scientific community since the early 1900s. The frauds you mentioned, like most scientific frauds, were committed by individuals in search of fame and/or money.
committed by individuals in search of fame and/or money ...
I see ...
So up on that I could bring some bones & produce it to the world as a million years old fossil & later on show it at any Science Museum that I want !!
Can I do that ?
If you say no then could you tell me why ?
Quote:
Are you claiming that some scientists (other than the ones committing the fraud in the first place) found out it was a fraud yet chose to remain silent? Evidence please.
The procedure that must be followed when examining any fossil befor presenting it to the world as Scientific discovery .
That is my Evidence ...
We are now in front of two options ...
Eather scientists could pass anything without testing it and then present it as scientific discovery or anyone can provide scientific discovery without examination from multiple sources ...
Both leads to a disaster ...
Quote:
In the scientific community, sure. When a scientist is exposed as a fraud, the truth is made public and his career is ruined. You will not find a single scientific source out there using the Piltdown Man as anything other than a cautionary tale.
The existence of scientific integrity does not negate with the existence of bluffing in the field of Science ...
Quote:
When a creationist is exposed as a fraud, very rarely does the creationist community acknowledge it. Most of the time, that creationist keeps his status, and many creationist websites will still display his hoaxes as if they were valid evidence.
In Isalm there is no such thing as creationist ...
Maybe the concept exists not the word or the definition that calls "creationist " .
It's a strange word for us ..
So I can not comment on the others .
As for us we believe that God created everything and gave it a system to applied by ...
what you call the theory of evolution for us is that system .. that is why we dont have Gaps or missing links like you do .
Quote:
True. But I wanted to know the website so I could show you all the blatant lies that website contains. I have yet to see a creationist website that has none. Maybe then you'd think more critically about its informations.
I understand what you mean ...
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,451,354 times
Reputation: 258
I agree with Squall-lionheart. I'd like to add that the light for acquiring the knowledge of progress may also realize the failure of it and declining tendencies in certain subjects. At that we are subjective. Progress itself is objective and being thus de-facto contains progress with the Light we grapple it in and by other people.
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Old 10-20-2011, 05:17 AM
 
570 posts, read 620,430 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
I agree with Squall-lionheart. I'd like to add that the light for acquiring the knowledge of progress may also realize the failure of it and declining tendencies in certain subjects. At that we are subjective. Progress itself is objective and being thus de-facto contains progress with the Light we grapple it in and by other people.
Finally .... someone has the guts to agree with me ...
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:13 PM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,801,867 times
Reputation: 1803
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
I dont know about other believers & I dont know how they feel but for Islam ... they have been trying so hard to Change our view about Islam for the last 1400 years & guess what ?
Based on your behavior here, I don't have to guess, I can see it in action.

Quote:
What scientists ?
Christians or atheists or Hindus or Jews or Muslims or Buddhists ?
The nice thing about science is that it doesn't matter. Unlike religion, it's based on verifiable fact, so people of all backgrounds can come to the same answers after an honest look at the data.

Quote:
[color=indigo]Ok ... when a fossil shown to the world at science museum for 41 years and then later on discovered as a fraud
Where has this happened?

Quote:
Lets see :
What is this list supposed to be? Some are honest mistakes, others frauds, others incomplete and inconclusive fossilized remains. What does that prove, exactly?

Quote:
I reject both religion & evolution fraud evidence !!!
So you're saying if I can find 2 cases of Muslims committing religions fraud you'd de-convert? If you don't find fraud by a few individuals a reason to disregard the rest of the organization, why even bring up these rare cases of fake fossils? Seems like you're not being consistent here.

Quote:
No one is saying anything about someone else's work as your own .
I said something about it because that's what you did, in your post that was deleted because it was plagiarism.
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Old 10-23-2011, 06:54 AM
 
570 posts, read 620,430 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
Based on your behavior here, I don't have to guess, I can see it in action.
See what ?!!!
Quote:
The nice thing about science is that it doesn't matter. Unlike religion, it's based on verifiable fact, so people of all backgrounds can come to the same answers after an honest look at the data.
Exactly ..
So please do not try to portray it as if all scientists are atheists ...
There are religious scientists too ..
Quote:
Where has this happened?
Piltdown man: Found in a gravel pit in Sussex England in 1912, this fossil was considered by some sources to be the second most important fossil proving the evolution of man—until it was found to be a complete forgery 41 years later. The skull was found to be of modern age. The fragments had been chemically stained to give the appearance of age, and the teeth had been filed down!
Quote:
What is this list supposed to be? Some are honest mistakes, others frauds, others incomplete and inconclusive fossilized remains. What does that prove, exactly?
Honest mistakes ?
It is not just a wrong word in some Lecture !!
frauds ?
Yes ...
incomplete ...
So dont show it to the world at least ...
I told you those fake fossils keeps coming at different times & You said no so I prove it to you with that list !!
Thats all !!
Please concentrate ...
Quote:
So you're saying if I can find 2 cases of Muslims committing religions fraud you'd de-convert? If you don't find fraud by a few individuals a reason to disregard the rest of the organization, why even bring up these rare cases of fake fossils? Seems like you're not being consistent here.
There are no such thing as Islam religions fraud !!!
Quran and hadeeth of Prophet Muhammad is the same today as it was 1400 years ago ...
There is no comparison here ...
No one can faked a verses of the Koran or Prophet Muhammad hadeeth because we already have the full version , But science does not end that is why it can be falsified ... it depends on a specific experiences that can easly be manipulated ...
Quote:
I said something about it because that's what you did, in your post that was deleted because it was plagiarism.
And you were the only one who saw it & misunderstood it before I delete it .... wright ?
weird !!!
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:05 AM
 
56 posts, read 85,594 times
Reputation: 44
How do creationists explain the existence of nested hierarchies in phylogeny, evidence from endogenous retrovirus insertions, or human Chromosome #2? Enlighten me.
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,107,519 times
Reputation: 3719
Default Lies, lies & more lies....

Well squall, ol'd pal (and I mean that in the nicest way, since you do come back for more gun-blasts of The Ultimate Truth, unflinchingly...)) this has got to be my last point-by-point lengthy diatribe back to you. Why? Because you persist in repeating the most inane and refutable stuff, and you are a bottomless pit of it. It's a bit like looking down into an open septic tank of mis-truths and fakery.Wheewwph: the stink! But I'll take you on one more time, and then I'm done. Nothing more to say.

But first, this applause point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theinconvenient_Truth View Post
Ok, monkeys.
I studied for 47 years biology, chemistry, Physics and so evolution and all religion related.
I think to be quite expert, i have had an answer to quite all my questions.
I'll be short. We are monkeys, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
Close enough. Monkeys split off from the larger ape groups, but you got the point, and we'll go with your not having English as your primary language. Thanks!

Here's a list for the education of our massively intransigent (& dishonest, as I'll prove later...) friend, squall, to study.

List of human evolution fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The rest of your post, Theincon; is essentially true. This is a dangerous place, and we're lucky to have gotten this far. In fact, we're a very ephemeral species, and could be gone in two weeks, all of us. Just one 20 km diameter meteorite, and flash: all gone, except for those tiny little bettles or bactierai buried down in the ice or in a dark cve. Then, it starts all over again, until this...

Image Detail for - http://www.funpeak.com/funnypics/aliens-vs-predator.jpg

.. is the result, 25 million years from now. Perhaps they won't argue like idiots about some mythical Gawd-figure having POOF'D them into existence!

Then, this elegant conclusion...
Incredible that in the USA where we have NASA, best Universities and Silicon Valley, we have even the shameful "Bible Belt" and all ignorant people believing in fables. Europeans are 40 years ahead of us in this.

Poor countries like Iran, Africa, Pakistan, India and other are partially justified because they are 80 years behind USA. Bus Americans that believe in Creationism, Adam, Eve and all other bull****s while using technologies , knowing that there are peoples dying each second, starving or for health diseases, are not justified.

All kind "God believing peoples" should not be allowed to use Hospitals and let them pray and die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theinconvenient_Truth View Post
I'm a Researcher.
Monkeys, apes, chimps, you match the case.
People must understand, be simple.

Religion, in particular Christianity have the only good thing to be a brake to violence and to hold off the people. But bigotry is evil.

Other religions instead are not soo sweety and force children to live an absurd life, like the ones that learn the Koran literally to memory instead of studyng and live the only life we have.
I agree. Hey; at least he's trying, Rafi, unlike squall, who has chosen to celebrate accumulated ignorance! But first, this nice one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Actually, homo sapiens and neanderthals apparently did interbreed at some time.

The findings were published in the July 2011 issue of the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution.
And don't you know: that was SOME par-teyhh, nana053! Talk about animal gurlz! Just give 'em a bit'o Tequila, and WATCH OUT! Hey; we guys wouldn't have to do NUTTIN but just lay back and enjoy it! A Homo-erectus's dream come true ()

Image Detail for - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Sangiran_Homo_erectus_Diorama.jpg

Please note: the guy in this pic seems to be considering the real origins of the Universe: notice the look of quiet contemplation on his visage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
The point is that science is self-correcting, and if it were not for fellow scientists, most hoaxes would never be exposed. You can't say the same for religion, which must be based on faith.
squall doesn't want to hear this fact, catman; he's stuck in his repetition tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
When some one begins to question the incident number & not the incident itself then you should know that the story is true in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
I've already addressed this silly non-argument of your's, squall. So why do you repeat the statistical falsehood? Science produces huge volumes of peer-reviewed and reliable work! Else you would not be able to post on your computer, nor deliver it via satellite and the Internet. Then there's those antibiotics you took last year to cull out that mutated species that you picked up off a water faucet (proven many decades ago by... science!), and your car, and your clothing, and.... and.... and....
What I noticed was that no one deny the falsification of evidence by some scientists , Instead you tried to reduce the number .

Quote:
Originally Posted by stunned_rflmn
WRONG. Boy, you really have it wrong. Having given you many many opps to review your position in the form of links and evidence to the contrary of what you've said, I'm going to say, from now on, that frankly..

YOU ARE A LIAR!

Which means, absolutely, you do it ON PURPOSE...


...not by some mistake of ignorance. YOU obviously lie on purpose, which is disgraceful.
The point is that fake fossils do exist & they were made by scientists to fool the world & support the theory of evolution , If the theory does not need to be proven by falsify evidence then why did they do it ?

Yup, and as we've pointed out, its ALWAYS science that then discredits those guys. All two or three, or even five, of them. Wowsers! Why? Because that self-policing action adds to the overall credibility of science, rather than reducing it as you insistently want to claim. Nope. When the fakers see they won't likely ever get away with it, they also know their careers will be ruined. BTW, here's a bit more actual background as to your unwarranted claim that it took >41 years to uncover, not to mention that all this was back in 1912:

"From the outset, there were scientists who expressed skepticism about the Piltdown find. G.S. Miller, for example, observed in 1915 that "deliberate malice could hardly have been more successful than the hazards of deposition in so breaking the fossils as to give free scope to individual judgment in fitting the parts together."[6] In the decades prior to its exposure as a forgery in 1953, scientists increasingly regarded Piltdown as an enigmatic aberration inconsistent with the path of hominid evolution as demonstrated by fossils found elsewhere.[1] Skeptical scientists only increased in number as more fossils were found."

Well, perhaps the discredited scientists then go get a job at the Creation Museum or over at Answers in Genesis, huh? At any rate, their careers are wrecked. And you want to say the majority of scientists act in this way?

Oh and BTW, I'm a scientist, as you probably know. Why should I not be personally insulted by your accusations? Tell me, pray tell?
Why do many scientists remained silent about this fraud for many years ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wowd_rflmn
They don't. Again, you lie. See my points above. You only took the most superficial and shallow view, that's obvious. Proof of your intentional insincerity again!
In Islam it does not matter where you take the information from as long as it is true , There for I hope that you dont make it look like it is all wrong just because I took it from Christian or Muslim site .
That excuse makes you in a weak position , Trust me .[/quote]

Oh no, my friend: trust ME: I've seen enough of the way all religions lie to frantically support their old mythical beliefs. They have no problems with spouting lie upon lie. Your sources prove this. Hey: YOU prove this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
What evidence presented in the link I posted was falsified? Please be specific.

...most scientists remained skeptical until it was proved to be a forgery. It became more and more suspicious as genuine hominid fossils were found and it didn't fit into the pattern of the genuine fossils.

I have no idea why you're stuck on this one hoax as if it eliminates all of the genuine fossils that have been found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
Exactly: his approach from a rather thin logic is appallingly inept. I wonder if he can understand those two words...
Are you saying there's a world-wide conspiracy among scientists to hide the truth? They must no be very good at it if some high school student has figured them out.

But then again, I guess you believe that you know more than every biologist and doctor in the world - they're all wrong and only you have the truth. So believing in a global conspiracy is small potatoes after that.


And it's a good thing creationists exposed this fraud - oh wait, no they didn't. Scientists did.

Good job showing how science uses evidence and reason to get to the truth of the matter - too bad religion can't take a hint.

Will you reject religion if I find 2 instances of religious fraud? It seems that's enough for you to reject science, so it should be enough to reject religion as well. That is, if you're interested in being consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rflmn
(Oh OH! Pick Me PICK ME! See: Ray "Banana Man" Comfort, and his "perfect fit" argument! Yeah! (Though you'll want to lay down on the floor first soz you don't hurt yourself when you fall down laughing...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo
In other words, you can't prove your claims and are going to just repeat them as if that will make them any more true. Here's a hint - it doesn't. Keep trying though and maybe you'll be able to silence the doubts running around in your head.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxolan View Post
In the scientific community... when a scientist is exposed as a fraud, the truth is made public and his career is ruined. You will not find a single scientific source out there using the Piltdown Man as anything other than a cautionary tale.

When a creationist is exposed as a fraud, very rarely does the creationist community acknowledge it. Most of the time, that creationist keeps his status, and many creationist websites will still display his hoaxes as if they were valid evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
I dont know about other believers & I dont know how they feel but for Islam ... they have been trying so hard to Change our view about Islam for the last 1400 years & guess what ?
They only make it stronger ... so please joined them if you like too , you will only be a number add to a very long list !!
Yeah OK; that's true: the religions that thrive and build on the overall illiteracy of an exponentially growing population of peasants will thrive. For now, when we're obviously awash in a rapidly growing population of uneducated but fearful peasants, mostly in the Middle East and southern Asia. Later, when (or if...) their standard of living rises, and education expands into all the citizenry, such blatant tomfoolery will fail, as all make-believe sects and cults do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
Finally .... someone has the guts to agree with me ...
Oh. I think you should check out the credibility of this particular poster, squall. If you can follow his tortured and generally indecipherable logic, you're a better man that many of us here!

So please do count him as a prime example of your supporters! A club with a membership of ONE! Wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
See what ?!!!

Exactly ..
So please do not try to portray it as if all scientists are atheists ...
There are religious scientists too ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tired_rflmn
Uhmmm NOPE! Not very many. You can provide that well-known internet list of about 100 theist scientists. But then, we'll counter with a list of about 2 Billion scientists who are atheists, since after all, atheism grows and flourishes in a culture of education, knowledge and rationale.

And let's not forget: there are about 4 - 6 million new scientists graduating each and every year, globally, who for the vast majority part, knowingly believe in an ancient earth, of dinosaurs, of the Big Bang and of course, of Evolution.

Now couple this with the 20 - 40 million+ that have already graduated and have honest tested careers in research and study, plus teaching and publishing and whaddah yah get, squall? All lies? Oh sure, you betcha!

You simply cannot deny any of this unless your mind is doing The Three Monkeys thing:

Image Detail for - http://www.millieballance.com/images/the-3-monkeys32906.jpg
No one can faked a verses of the Koran or Prophet Muhammad hadeeth because we already have the full version , But science does not end that is why it can be falsified ... it depends on a specific experiences that can easly be manipulated ...
And yet..,. every time I mention those famous Qu'Ranic phrases that ALL you guys want to "kill the infidel"*, I'm told this phrase does not exist in your Qu'Ran.

There. Four examples follow, so just like your Piltdown case, upon which you skewer ALL science, I guess this pretty much eliminates the honesty and sincerity of the entire Koran, huh? It's a book of deceit and immorality, which tells it's members to go forth and murder the innocent.

Qu'Ran 2:191 "for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out"

9:5 "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

Quran 3:56: "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".


And if all that doesn't mean you have murderous thoughts, then I'll have to assume you DO want to murder me and my family, yes? Which is it? I'm confused!

Remember context and statistics, squall. You can't use both sides when they contradict each other. Science as a process and question-answerer is hugely reliable, and frankly, you know it: you've just chosen, I've now seen, to repetitiously LIE about it.

And that alone makes you a bad [i.e: dishonest] Muslim, BTW. Oh oh...
_____________________________

And with that... I'm done with you. I proved my point, while you've provided nothing but a prevarication-filled EPIC FAIL. QED.

Last edited by rifleman; 10-23-2011 at 09:39 AM..
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:14 AM
 
570 posts, read 620,430 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facepalm17 View Post
How do creationists explain the existence of nested hierarchies in phylogeny, evidence from endogenous retrovirus insertions, or human Chromosome #2? Enlighten me.
When you explane to me how random chance and accidents can make a accurate mechanism system I will answer your question .
How did unconscious cell produce that huge amount of consciousness ?




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