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Old 10-31-2011, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I'm not a total believer in Evolution. I think science hasn't worked out anything 100% yet, we're still learning about the process of Life. Yet I favour a kind of Theistic evolution. I totally reject the idea of a blind universe where evolution is a result of randomly beneficial mutations creating new species ad infinitum. The guiding hand of the Creator, either through the system he put into place or through his sustaining influence, is what keeps it all on track. There is ultimate purpose to it all, not just a seemingly purposeless cycle of complexification and simplification.
Wherever did you get the idea that evolution is random? It is not random at all, but is based on two main processes, Natural selection and sexual selection. Natural selection

Zoology 500 D
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Yet another discovery regarding human evolution.... Origin story: New papers claim A. sediba as human ancestor
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Old 10-31-2011, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,062,995 times
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Default A. sediba; may he live in famous infamy forever! Our True Father, who art resplendent in the mud beds....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yet another discovery regarding human evolution.... Origin story: New papers claim A. sediba as human ancestor
Esp. given our new-found ability to ABSOLUTELY back-track on mitochondrial DNA lineage. We can now follow familial traits, specific characteristics, and most importantly, the mRNA out of momma's reliably transmitted mitochondrial genome.

Hard to argue with that little piece of irrefutable info! But I'm also sure that if we could somehow take and get an HONEST Poll here, we'd also discover that only about 0.00001% of our Christian readers have even a passing understanding of mitochondrial function, it's uniqueness and it's origins and modern role in cellular functioning and lineage tracking.

Heck; they'd stumble hard on the word mitochondria all on it's own, and even what ship it came in on...

And yet, they continue to vehemently refute all it's capable of telling us. Yup; a truly compelling argument on their part to say the least! Lead on down the darkest pathways, oh yea faithful sheeple!

As sanspeur has provided above, here's an excellent but brief homework reading, assignment, esp. the part about the possible level of dating uncertainties involved, but which are but a tiny percentage sub-set of the total time we've all been here on planet earth. So much for any cogent and well-organized defense against our literal ancestor, a. sediba!

Origin story: New papers claim A. sediba as human ancestor
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:20 AM
 
34,448 posts, read 8,865,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
You betcha, o_c! And even more incredibly, he accepts that one without batting even a single brain cell!

1) Your total intellectual failure to comprhend this does little to convince the rest of us, squall.

The arrival of what you determine to be "perfection" is nothing but the accumulated end-effects of literally trillions upon trillions of trial and error tests, coupled with the relentless elimination of the unfit, the less-than-perfect, when tested in real-life competition against an organism that is, by chance, better suited. This is so easily understood that seriously, I'm actually wondering if you are perhaps missing some critical neuronal complexes, or perhaps you are malnourished? Want a V-8 drink perhaps?

It's all those mutations you seemingly can't get your unscientific, non-statistically oriented head around; you just assume one or two or five biochemical/genetic trial/test "balloons" maximum, over a few months, not even years, acting alone in a single litre of cold chemical-free sea water out there amongst the uncountable Bah-qin-tribbilion litres of same.

Whereas, in reality, yeah; it is exactly that, but it's also times the same number of litres of nice luke-warm sea water, times the uncountable numbers of bio-active molecules all trying to get along and to form into unusual combinations, times the number of seconds per day, month and year, times 13 billion of those years...

But then you willingly throw up your arms and proclaim: "How could all this work out so well? It's totally incomprehensible to me that it could possibly account for a good outcome absent some designer personality!!"

Really?

Well, maybe to the highly limited mindset, one that does not want to accept the obvious, it's unattainable, but not to us who can and have thought it out. It's the obvious outcome, frankly, and it's equally obvious as to exactly how there's so many different versions of life. Why? Because there's a whole lot of different niches to be filled is why! (BTW, please... just this once, squall, look up "niches", please, before we meet like this again.)

It all divergent and convergent and sympathetic co-evolution, and of simultaneous evolution pathways from long-ago different origins, but faced with similar conditions in vastly separated locations, in which to test and grow, and vastly different environments to test out in. The result will be organisms with similar functionalities and acheivements, proof again of how Evolution works.

The whole thing about we here on God's earth being "placed" by Him at the perfect distance from the sun, with just the right amount of solar radiation & sunlight, and at the "correct" temperature range (Q: what about conditions as variable as The South Pole's extreme temps and conditions versus the hot, humid Amazonian jungle? Huh? Both evolved suitably adapted life), The resultant humidity and all the other factors all pale into oblivion when you realize that, in fact, we evolved to fit the extant conditions, not the other way around.

Sheesh; you are daft, man. Daft! The limits you've placed on your own self-education are stunning, and yet "telling".
Excellent exposition. Squall also posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
Millions of various miscellaneous species developed from a single cell .. ,During that please don't forget to tell us how & why it distinguish male from female & why our survival link to something with pleasure & why females usually more prettier than males?
There is a clue to this delusion that 'complexity is impossible without god' by mentally mismatching amoebal blobs which divide without an arranged marriage and salmon that spawn in a fenzy without gazing into their partner's fishy eyes very much and to those critters who wait for the last man standing as the fittest as a mate with human concepts of prettiness and romantic love which overlays some pretty evolved mating instincts.

The overview hinted at here, let alone one available to even light Web -browsing would make it clear that sexuality and reproduction is a naturally selected way of individuals, groups and then species to have an advantage in competing for survival.

I also see an element of the 'what actually is it' fallacy. There's this delusion or fallacy that, I we can't explain down to last particle what something is and how it works, then it doesn't work (and therefore goddunit must be the default). This is bosh as we knew what light, electricity, radio and indeed gravity did long before we knew what it was. DNA had explained much of what we didn't know as relativity explained much of what gravity actually was. Why do we still get this demand to explain everything to the hilt before it will be credited? It's the old 'move the goalposts' argument. Whatever we explain a new question is posited and a new one after that (with the delighted discovery that the discussion can be kept going almost indefinitely and the squaller need never have to accept the evidence) and indeed we get to the 'if you can't prove it %100..' ultimate denial.

That doesn't matter as we know that such persons will never be convinced by mere swathes of cogently argued evidence but by having some personal shock which temporarily knocks down the mental barriers of faith (which is usually quite long enough) but the value is in being able to explain the evidence and demolish the many misconceptions, misrepresentations and ongoing lies about evolution, the case for religion and the case for disbelief.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:09 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,116,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Wherever did you get the idea that evolution is random? It is not random at all, but is based on two main processes, Natural selection and sexual selection. Natural selection

Zoology 500 D
Of course I know about that, but random mutations are the process by which natural selection furthers evolution, is it not?
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,671,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Of course I know about that, but random mutations are the process by which natural selection furthers evolution, is it not?
Yes, the mutation itself is random but what mutation is kept and passed on to succeeding generations and what is discarded in not random. Most mutations are discarded since they do not aid survival.
This is why only about 1.5% of human DNA actually is used, while the rest is not coded, but is a record of all the discarded mutations over time...They used to call this uncoded DNA junk DNA.

Science has been able to "turn on" some of these unused genes and produce teeth in chickens, proving that chickens were not always chickens.... Mutant Chicken Grows Alligatorlike Teeth: Scientific American

I just hope they don't start messing around with humans this way, although it might be cool to have a prehensile tail, or be able to grasp things with our feet.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:37 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,116,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yes, the mutation itself is random but what mutation is kept and passed on to succeeding generations and what is discarded in not random. Most mutations are discarded since they do not aid survival.
This is why only about 1.5% of human DNA actually is used, while the rest is not coded, but is a record of all the discarded mutations over time...They used to call this uncoded DNA junk DNA.

Science has been able to "turn on" some of these unused genes and produce teeth in chickens, proving that chickens were not always chickens.... Mutant Chicken Grows Alligatorlike Teeth: Scientific American

I just hope they don't start messing around with humans this way, although it might be cool to have a prehensile tail, or be able to grasp things with our feet.
Genetic engineering is plain scary...I just wish those creepy braniacs in the white coats had a bit more sense, instead of just uncontainable smarts...
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:25 AM
 
570 posts, read 617,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Wherever did you get the idea that evolution is random? It is not random at all, but is based on two main processes, Natural selection and sexual selection. Natural selection

Zoology 500 D
Evolution is not a random process & natural selection itself is not random I agree .. yet you can not separate between it and random because the genetic variation on which natural selection acts is a random process
Now the origin of life or biogenesis which is random is another theory but of course we all know that it has a direct link with the theory of evolution .
It is like saying : that computer software was made by random (biogenesis) but I can explan to you how it works & evolve (evolution) !!!!
So there is no escape from the link between random and the theory of evolution .
I notice lately that a lot of evolutionists began to realise that random contrary with reason and logic, so they are now trying so hard to get rid of this dilemma in any way thay can ...
Sorry ... too late ..

Last edited by squall-lionheart; 11-02-2011 at 07:01 AM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:30 AM
 
570 posts, read 617,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yet another discovery regarding human evolution.... Origin story: New papers claim A. sediba as human ancestor
How do we know they are not fooling us ?!!
This could be another Piltdown Man
It could be another Hoax that exposed after 30 or 40 years from now .
They have a long history of falsifying facts , They Proved that they are not trustable on that matter .
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:53 AM
 
570 posts, read 617,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Science has been able to "turn on" some of these unused genes and produce teeth in chickens, proving that chickens were not always chickens....
So producing teeth in chickens is a prov that chickens were not always chickens ?!!!
Are you alwayes like that ready to believe what ever they say without thinking ?
I will tell you what is the situation here !!!
chickens were always chickens ...
Ok ...
It is just what happen when you manipulate the Genetic genes ...
Abnormal results will occur !!!
See ...?
It doesn't need a gnuse to figure it out ...At the same time very simple & logic & of curse not random
In the future they could creat iron fingers to a human and then they will tell us that this mean some humans came from alien ancestors !!!

Wake up dude .

Last edited by squall-lionheart; 11-02-2011 at 08:10 AM..
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