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Old 09-21-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,101,953 times
Reputation: 3719

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Just for the benefit of those dedicated to finding and discussing the truth: I and others here have, with persistence, often asked proponents of Creationism, those who deny Evolution, abiogenesis, for example, to simply "prove up" their case.

I'd expect, in any intelligent debate, that these folks would have the honesty to provide us with their own well- thought-out idealogies, to substantiate their "arcane" thinking with an honest back up.

Be well aware, Moderator cut: edit that it's more than easy now to illuminate the depths (or, in this cade... the shallows...) of your intellectutal and scientific litercy. Or, more directly put: of plagiarizing without citation. Example:

A recent thread post (that one, sadly, is now closed, and just when we were getting down to the nutz'n'bolts of it too...)

The individual related some (he hoped...) "astounding, amazing & proofy" information that:

"If one stretched out a strand of DNA from the oldest and most basic organism known to man, " A Bacterium", it would be almost 1,000 times longer than the diameter of the bacterium itself. Its DNA pattern is about 4 million blocks long."

Woo-Hoo, huh? Thus, this was supposed to be "proof" (a word this Moderator cut: "individual" tosses around without any justification, only that he is personally Awed by It All...)

Well: if one simply outlines and then copies one of these sorts of phrases, and then places them into the Google Search Box, (& hits Enter...) the true origins become clear.

In this particular case, the bit of knowledge the individual was trying to astound us with, after categorically refusing any prior requests to show us his true educational underpinnings and depth of understanding of the SM (Scientific Method), modern biology and genetics, and of his idea of "Proof" on literally scores of his past denialist posts, was to simply C&P from:

Anointed-One.net.

Thus, again, QED.

A vacant answer, devoid of any valid and well-supported position. And hardly from a scientifically credible site, wouldn't you agree? (I mean, do go ahead and read some of it! It truly IS astounding, I will grand you that, but hardly in the way this Mighty peson had intended! But it is also one of his prized source sites, so there you have it!

Example: this bogus and biased site then goes on to categorically claim:

"There is absolutely zero scientific evidence of the existence of any organisms between the supposed event of abiogenesis and bacteria. This is the biggest missing link of all. There is absolutely no evidence any such organism is alive today or was ever alive in the past."

Uhmm...well.... sorry, this is an outright fabrication, but would you believe any other version of fantasy-think? Nope.)

NOTE TO THE TRULY CURIOUS: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/1...-cambrian.html

And So: Friends and trusted readers: just keep this very useful tool in mind: check them out and see if they actually have a mind of their own.

And... It's back to you, Big M...)

Last edited by june 7th; 09-21-2011 at 10:58 AM.. Reason: Modified to adhere to TOS specifications.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,057 posts, read 29,832,089 times
Reputation: 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
And So: Friends and trusted readers: just keep this very useful tool in mind: check them out and see if they actually have a mind of their own.
Evidently, you aren't a proponent of the Cut-and-Paste Theory of Proofs.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,692 posts, read 11,476,045 times
Reputation: 3685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Evidently, you aren't a proponent of the Cut-and-Paste Theory of Proofs.
Indeed, in some circles, that is a perfectly sufficient form of refutation.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,589,605 times
Reputation: 1760
There are still open questions in science and things which aren't currently understood.

When we come upon something which we can't yet explain, we can either assume that the answer is most likely consistent with the other known laws of nature, or we can assume a magic person MUST have used magic to make it happen.

Atheist assume the former, theist often assume the later.

So far the theist has been wrong everytime we have eventually discovered what the real answer is.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:16 AM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 10,751,034 times
Reputation: 19957
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Just for the benefit of those dedicated to finding and discussing the truth: I and others here have, with persistence, often asked proponents of Creationism, those who deny Evolution, abiogenesis, for example, to simply "prove up" their case.

I'd expect, in any intelligent debate, that these folks would have the honesty to provide us with their own well- thought-out idealogies, to substantiate their "arcane" thinking with an honest back up.

Be well aware, Moderator cut: orphaned that it's more than easy now to illuminate the depths (or, in this cade... the shallows...) of your intellectutal and scientific litercy. Or, more directly put: of plagiarizing without citation. Example:

A recent thread post (that one, sadly, is now closed, and just when we were getting down to the nutz'n'bolts of it too...)

The Troll related some (he hoped...) "astounding, amazing & proofy" information that:

"If one stretched out a strand of DNA from the oldest and most basic organism known to man, " A Bacterium", it would be almost 1,000 times longer than the diameter of the bacterium itself. Its DNA pattern is about 4 million blocks long."

Woo-Hoo, huh? Thus, this was supposed to be "proof" (a word this Moderator cut: orphaned tosses around without any justification, only that he is personally Awed by It All...)

Well: if one simply outlines and then copies one of these sorts of phrases, and then places them into the Google Search Box, (& hits Enter...) the true origins become clear.

In this particular case, the bit of knowledge the individual was trying to astound us with, after categorically refusing any prior requests to show us his true educational underpinnings and depth of understanding of the SM (Scientific Method), modern biology and genetics, and of his idea of "Proof" on literally scores of his past denialist posts, was to simply C&P from:

Anointed-One.net.

Thus, again, QED.

A vacant answer, devoid of any valid and well-supported position. And hardly from a scientifically credible site, wouldn't you agree? (I mean, do go ahead and read some of it! It truly IS astounding, I will grand you that, but hardly in the way this Mighty Troller had intended! But it is also one of his prized source sites, so there you have it!

Example: this bogus and biased site then goes on to categorically claim:

"There is absolutely zero scientific evidence of the existence of any organisms between the supposed event of abiogenesis and bacteria. This is the biggest missing link of all. There is absolutely no evidence any such organism is alive today or was ever alive in the past."

Uhmm...well.... sorry, this is an outright fabrication, but would you believe any other version of fantasy-think? Nope.)

NOTE TO THE TRULY CURIOUS: Single-Celled Giant Upends Early Evolution: Discovery News

And So: Friends and trusted readers: just keep this very useful tool in mind: check them out and see if they actually have a mind of their own.

And... It's back to you, Big M...)

you do know??? when talking to a wall, piece of furniture, tree, rock, or even a cat,, you should expect hear mum well at least the cat might reply,"" meow ,meow, meow...

Last edited by june 7th; 09-21-2011 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:25 AM
 
35,157 posts, read 9,108,255 times
Reputation: 4835
My own line has been to ask what is the evidence for supporting Creation(ism) The only evidence there has been is what I took the trouble to find. Not that it was very persuasive.

As Rifleman points out, the argument, which is usually intended to pooh - pooh (That is an utterly apt term for what they do) evolution theory and the evidence for it and assume that 'Goddunit' is thereby proven by default, is to just cut and paste some stuff off a Creationist website neither knowing nor caring whether it is relevant, antique, long since refuted, misrepresenting or in fact bothering to understand it let alone check it out.

It the apologetics method which I might call the snowball method. You just keep chucking one thing from the pile after another hoping that one will hit and stick, thus giving the desired 'one shot win' (1) . All return shots are ignored, whether they hit or not (the analogy ain't perfect, I know )

In the end, no matter what the scoreline is, ignore it and claim a win.

If the return fire gets a bit withering, slip away quietly to a new position and start with another pile.

(1) Death Taxes, Josephus and Tacitus...and a footnote from me....I know this because of projection - the theist accusation that atheists are looking for a 'one shot' argument, when we know it takes a shedload of evidence to prove a theory
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:30 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,589,605 times
Reputation: 1760
It's striking that they can ask, "what are the odds a DNA strand could be so complex," without ever asking "what are the odds magic is possible."

(I no longer use the word "miracle" because it is an attempt to give credability to what is otherwise discredited under the term "magic".)
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,938 posts, read 9,716,318 times
Reputation: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
As Rifleman points out, the argument, which is usually intended to pooh - pooh ......
You just can't ignore a pooh-pooh old boy.


Rowan Atkinson & Stephen Fry: Poo Poo - YouTube
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,047 posts, read 30,805,992 times
Reputation: 12226
This is a comprehensive free educational site, but it contains much accurate information (ammunition) that can be used to correct the misinformation that many theists have been "educated" with.

The subjects of biology, chemistry, cosmology and astronomy, organic chemistry and physics are of particular interest. Khan Academy

Video from Khan Academy

Evolution Clarification - YouTube
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,725 posts, read 2,992,566 times
Reputation: 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
This is a comprehensive free educational site, but it contains much accurate information (ammunition) that can be used to correct the misinformation that many theists have been "educated" with.
I say, duh!

However, the video is unconvincing when trying to reconcile intelligent design and evolution. It should have stopped a couple of minutes earlier than it did.
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