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Old 09-23-2011, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,756 posts, read 5,278,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am just curious how so many of you believe in the bill of rights and will fight for those rights, yet at the same time, bash people for their religious beliefs?

I know quite a few atheists who think it is everyone's right to be free of religious persecution. Yet at the same time, they attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong and that they shouldn't believe what they do. This makes no sense. You are either open to people believing what they want to and believe they have the right to do so, or you are against their beliefs and don't think they have the right to believe them.

Maybe I am missing something. If I am fill me in. This is not an attempt to bash atheists, I am just curious to know why many atheists are like this?
Yeah, you're missing something.

In fact, several things.

First: you over-generalize. Not all atheists attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong. I've never forced my view on any religious person. Personally, I find it grievously cruel to try and rob someone of a Faith that makes their life happier.
Unfortunately, I cannot say that religious fundamentlaists have shown me the same courtesy; instead, more than a few have told me I was gonna burn for my disbelief.
And yes: I am quite open to people believing what they believe; it's what makes the world go 'round, amigo.
You've obviously had contact with some aggresively anti-Christian atheists, but I can assure you we're not all this way. To throw a blanket condemnation on them is to exhibit the very same narrowness of mind and intolerance that your post claims to be railing against.

Peace Out.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:56 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,325,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I know quite a few atheists who think it is everyone's right to be free of religious persecution.
Yes, are you saying everyone should be victim to religious persecution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Yet at the same time, they attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong and that they shouldn't believe what they do. This makes no sense.
You have the absolute right to be wrong, however that right stops when you attempt to impose your wrong thinking on anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
You are either open to people believing what they want to and believe they have the right to do so, or you are against their beliefs and don't think they have the right to believe them.
But that does not include your right to impose any of your beliefs on me or anyone else. Treat your beliefs like your genitalia, neatly tucked away and force them on no one. Your wanker and your beliefs in what ever circulates in your head, are yours ......... keep it that way and we won't have a problem.
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
16,016 posts, read 12,582,057 times
Reputation: 5115
Hate the belief (a bloodthirsty, tortureloving god ), not the believer.
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:29 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,325,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Hate the belief (a bloodthirsty, tortureloving god ), not the believer.
Can't, for hating something that doesn't exist is as stupid as worshiping it.
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Old 09-23-2011, 05:00 PM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,085,003 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
[b]The same as what I wrote.
I have to apologise in advance for my reply. Your response was hard to read given your unusual choice to put your words in my mouth by putting your reply to me in the quote from me and thus making it look like everything you wrote was something I wrote. I can not read that and I doubt anyone else will bother either.

However to reply to the part that actually was your words in your space, I do not think I am a minority at all. At least not how you mean it. I may be a minority in that I express what most atheists feel better than they do but what I expressed is exactly the position of most atheists and as a founding member of Atheist Ireland I know that all the members we have bar a couple feel exactly that way.

The aggression, condescension, stridency and more many attribute to atheists comes from the frustration of having theists tell atheists what they think and feel, rather than having them read what they actually think and feel in posts such as the one I wrote above.

But I do not think this is an atheist problem. It is a human one. We are bad at listening and we are bad at communicating. A potent mix indeed.

The real problem comes however when someone realises they are losing an argument, and so they decide it is easier to complain about how arrogant and condescending the other person is instead. In this way they get to run away from argument. So when you hear people complaining about the "new atheist" being "strident and agressive"... what you should realise is the speaker is saying "I can not argue against the points this person is making, so I am going to attack his character instead".
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
16,016 posts, read 12,582,057 times
Reputation: 5115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Can't, for hating something that doesn't exist is as stupid as worshiping it.
I would think that someone burning away at the stake, would feel that the beliefs of others, exists, that is if they could think of anything other than their dire situation.

I wouldn't think that having a view of a belief would have to validate that belief. Very much situation dependent.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:15 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,244,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I would think that someone burning away at the stake, would feel that the beliefs of others, exists,
No, they'd think that the delusional beliefs of others were causing those people to act in a delusional, irrational manner.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
16,016 posts, read 12,582,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
No, they'd think that the delusional beliefs of others were causing those people to act in a delusional, irrational manner.
I think I'm falling down a little here on the meaning of the word belief. So I will reword my original statement. Hate the delusion, not the person who holds that delusion
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:30 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,325,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I would think that someone burning away at the stake, would feel that the beliefs of others, exists, that is if they could think of anything other than their dire situation.

I wouldn't think that having a view of a belief would have to validate that belief. Very much situation dependent.
I have no idea what you said.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:45 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,325,412 times
Reputation: 8272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I think I'm falling down a little here on the meaning of the word belief. So I will reword my original statement. Hate the delusion, not the person who holds that delusion
I love the smell of acrid hypocrisy in the morning...... love the sinner, hate the sin hypocrisy, yet all actions against gays by religious bigots are directed specifically at the individuals, and not the sin.

NO, for the deluded individual is a practitioner of willful stupidity, and they are the one responsible for their actions. How dare you try to justify atrocity because of a the belief, or your attempt at damage control by changing to the word delusion. A bit of a freudian slip?
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