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Old 10-04-2011, 05:05 AM
 
34,789 posts, read 8,982,732 times
Reputation: 4811

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogead View Post
I realize that the post is directed towards atheists, so my position as an agnostic may or may not be of much value. Being open to someone's right to believe is not mutually exclusive to being against their beliefs.

I have absolutely no reason to believe in the tenants of any religion, and I'm intellectually opposed to the stated beliefs of all theists. However, I'm a first amendment absolutist, and I avidly defend the rights of anyone to practice and to proselytize their religious beliefs, providing those beliefs don't directly impinge on another's rights.

Children have an absolute right to bring a Bible to school. They have a right to read it. They have a right to discuss its contents with classmates. As long as these things are happening on the student's own time, and aren't happening under the auspices of a public school; any abridging of that right is clearly a violation of their first amendment guarantees.
As a Limey the US constitution doesn't apply here, but the same question applies. Nobody at my workplace was prevented from bringing a bible or discussing it with people, but where it became disruptive, such as someone suggesting they start a policy meeting with prayers for God's guidance or leaving tracts on people's desks or approaching them with an open Bible and a quote ready "Have you considered that?" It is getting unacceptable and the bod would be (was) told to cut it out. Quite right too.

In the US it would probably have been a Fox - news story. "Worker praised by boss threatened with sack for being a Christian!"
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:07 AM
 
34,789 posts, read 8,982,732 times
Reputation: 4811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
So, because you're not sure about those things, you hedge your bets and believe in all of them, pray to all of them, and attend church services dedicated to all of them. Right?

You attend mosque in worship of Allah, just to be sure. You go to synagogue and worship G-d, just to be sure. You go to the temple to pray to Shiva, just to be sure. You dance in a woodland stone circle under the full moon to worship the pagan gods, just to be sure. You go to Buddhist temple and meditate just in case reincarnation is true...just to be sure.

How DO you find the time to do all those things?
Nice one. Waiting for the response. 'All those are myths and false gods...the only true one is..." long pause with hushed dramatic music before the winner is announced.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:52 AM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,790,391 times
Reputation: 1803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
My question for atheists...

Are you SURE?
Sure about what, exactly?
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:51 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,945 posts, read 4,720,792 times
Reputation: 2606
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am just curious how so many of you believe in the bill of rights and will fight for those rights, yet at the same time, bash people for their religious beliefs?

I know quite a few atheists who think it is everyone's right to be free of religious persecution. Yet at the same time, they attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong and that they shouldn't believe what they do. This makes no sense. You are either open to people believing what they want to and believe they have the right to do so, or you are against their beliefs and don't think they have the right to believe them.

Maybe I am missing something. If I am fill me in. This is not an attempt to bash atheists, I am just curious to know why many atheists are like this?

I am just curious as to how your bashing is not bashing.

Please explain.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:53 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,945 posts, read 4,720,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
My question for atheists...

Are you SURE?

I am absolutely positive that your middle eastern myth is not reality.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:43 AM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,274,836 times
Reputation: 8265
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I wish god, heaven and the afterlife existed unfortunately, I am sure that they don't.
Indicates to me that you ain't got a clue about religion, except all the fluff they put in their sales brochures used to peddle membership in their fantasy club.

Religion is a pox on society, and the mind, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemies, for it would only make them more hateful, bigoted and dangerous.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:36 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,071,804 times
Reputation: 2972
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Well, you can deny it all you want. You cannot escape being human with perceptions, biases, etc. Psychological studies do prove how personal views are affected thus logic is affected. To you it is logical, your facts are the correct ones, etc.
A meaningless post designed solely to not actually give any facts of your own. I have adumbrated mine, you have not. I am agog to hear them when you want to get around to presenting them, but cop out posts like above to avoid giving any help no one.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:23 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,299,973 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am just curious how so many of you believe in the bill of rights and will fight for those rights, yet at the same time, bash people for their religious beliefs?

I know quite a few atheists who think it is everyone's right to be free of religious persecution. Yet at the same time, they attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong and that they shouldn't believe what they do. This makes no sense. You are either open to people believing what they want to and believe they have the right to do so, or you are against their beliefs and don't think they have the right to believe them.
Your mistake is thinking that religious persecution entails advocacy by non-state entities. Advocacy is not religious persecution. Advocacy can indeed run afoul of Amendment I, but not when done by non-state individuals/organizations. It helps to understand that the Bill of Rights restricts government action.

Quote:
Maybe I am missing something. If I am fill me in. This is not an attempt to bash atheists, I am just curious to know why many atheists are like this?
Most of us understand the difference between supporting a right and opposing the content put forth using that right (for example, free speech).
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:32 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,299,973 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnysee View Post
Did I ever indicate I was? do you wish that by other things NOT existing, that it could somehow prove God doesn't exist? Why yes, you do though you are denied your wish.
It's not a matter of proving.

I can't prove there wasn't an elephant in my garage last Thursday. The point is that those who advocate that there was indeed an elephant in my garage need to put forth some serious evidence -- otherwise there claim is to be rejected as so much nonsense. So it is with those advocating that there is a God or Zeus or Quetzalcoatl, in my garage or anywhere else.

And while I reject the idea of an elephant in my garage, that is even less preposterous than your ideas of a deity. For one, elephants exist. I've seen them. I've even seen one in my sleepy little southern Minnesota town, once (drinking from the river -- surprised the heck out of me, but the carnival was in town ... poor elephant). Deities, on the other hand, don't even have the advantage of being known entities.

It's an issue of logic. And one that completely eludes you, it seems.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:41 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,654 posts, read 3,743,307 times
Reputation: 3920
Well, I offer my opinions when asked, which is rare, and most people, perhaps being theists or perhaps not use to someone speaking up, do not like my response when asked.

I do not practice "religion" I read philosphy, I read religions texts mythology, cultural commentary etc These things fascinate me. I do believe the constitution, the "Bill of RIghts" It is what we live and are judeged by in this country. It is our "law" Man Made religious texts have no bearing under it, and while a person has a right to practice their religion, I think when their religion infringes on the rights of others, like when Chrisitan Fundies take lives by shooting up a Unitarian Church or when Muslims hijack a plane and crash it into a skyscraper, something like that indicates that underneath it all, religions may offer more harm than good.
I do not force my NON-THEISTIC belief system on anyone but if pressured, I can show why nothing from the Bible down to the sermons of Jim Roberts add up to anything worthful....
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