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Old 09-21-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,569,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I agree, the government should be like a utility company, minus the call center in India and the outrageous charges that make no sense.

So is sharing your religious beliefs ok as long as you aren't trying to force anyone? Im not talking about going door to door, just if it comes up in a conversation, then is it ok to talk about it and possibly make suggestions?
If by "ok" you mean should the government be in anyway involved to prevent it, I think it should certainly be ok and the government should do nothing to prevent it.

If by "ok" do you mean "is it socially acceptable", I don't mind it, if you don't mind me telling you what I think.

As a practical reality though, where I live it is only ok to say you believe in God, and it's not ok to be an atheist, in the social sense.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,900 posts, read 18,450,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am just curious how so many of you believe in the bill of rights and will fight for those rights, yet at the same time, bash people for their religious beliefs?

I know quite a few atheists who think it is everyone's right to be free of religious persecution. Yet at the same time, they attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong and that they shouldn't believe what they do. This makes no sense. You are either open to people believing what they want to and believe they have the right to do so, or you are against their beliefs and don't think they have the right to believe them.

Maybe I am missing something. If I am fill me in. This is not an attempt to bash atheists, I am just curious to know why many atheists are like this?
Arguing against religion on an anonymous forum is hardly denying someone's freedom of religion. If we were blocking the entrance to your church or ripping down crosses and taking away your bibles and burning them, then maybe. Otherwise this is just whining that you are loosing the argument.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,037 posts, read 30,676,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am just curious how so many of you believe in the bill of rights and will fight for those rights, yet at the same time, bash people for their religious beliefs?

I know quite a few atheists who think it is everyone's right to be free of religious persecution. Yet at the same time, they attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong and that they shouldn't believe what they do. This makes no sense. You are either open to people believing what they want to and believe they have the right to do so, or you are against their beliefs and don't think they have the right to believe them.

Maybe I am missing something. If I am fill me in. This is not an attempt to bash atheists, I am just curious to know why many atheists are like this?
Yeah, you are missing something, and you also have something you should get rid of. Your persecution complex. Atheists DO NOT bash people for their religious beliefs. We disagree with the beliefs, and tell you why we don't believe...If any bashing happens the target is the whacky beliefs, not the people holding them. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many theists who attack atheists themselves.

Quote:
“No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”
George Bush
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:05 PM
 
4,172 posts, read 5,857,550 times
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OP: another way to look at it is this. I respect your right to have your (intelligent and/or stupid) opinion, but do not expect me to blindly respect the opinion itself.

An example would be KKK - they have every right to demonstrate, ACLU fights for the KKK's right to do so. I agree with what ACLU does but do not agree with KKK's philosophy.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,933,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
If by "ok" you mean should the government be in anyway involved to prevent it, I think it should certainly be ok and the government should do nothing to prevent it.

If by "ok" do you mean "is it socially acceptable", I don't mind it, if you don't mind me telling you what I think.

As a practical reality though, where I live it is only ok to say you believe in God, and it's not ok to be an atheist, in the social sense.
I am sorry you live in such an area. I believe/do that a person should be able to believe in what they want as long as they aren't harming anyone and aren't forcing or trying to force it on others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Do you "share" your beliefs as part of a mutally engaged upon conversation, or do you introduce the topic of religious beliefs unbidden? This answer will make all the difference, IMO.
It all depends on the topic. If it pertains to the topic at hand then I might bring it up, but I usually ask if it is ok to speak about it as I know everyone has their own beliefs and could be offended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yeah, you are missing something, and you also have something you should get rid of. Your persecution complex. Atheists DO NOT bash people for their religious beliefs. We disagree with the beliefs, and tell you why we don't believe...If any bashing happens the target is the whacky beliefs, not the people holding them. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many theists who attack atheists themselves.
Do you speak for all Atheists? NO, you don't. I wasn't necessarily talking about people on this forum. Most of you on here are great and don't bash. I know you don't see it this way, but bashing something an individual believes in is bashing that person as personal beliefs are, well... personal. They are personal beliefs are they not? Most atheists say to keep them personal, so...

I know quite a few atheists IRL that bash people for their beliefs. Calling them stupid for believing in such things, this is personal bashing.

I don't have a persecution complex. I could care less what you think of me or my beliefs. I was merely asking a question to anyone with a constructive answer, it seems those limited to few on this forum.

BTW, George Bush is an idiot!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Arguing against religion on an anonymous forum is hardly denying someone's freedom of religion. If we were blocking the entrance to your church or ripping down crosses and taking away your bibles and burning them, then maybe. Otherwise this is just whining that you are loosing the argument.
I am asking a simple question. If you don't want to answer it and just avoid it, then why post? I recently red a few articles on why religion and spirituality are false, these books offer no proof for their claims. Like All atheists say, lack of proof is not proof. These books make outright claims that religion and spirituality are false, the burden of proof falls on them now. They are making an outright claim with no empirical data whatsoever.

I am not trying to attack anyone or say that Atheists are wrong. I just want to know why some atheists claim to stand up for peoples rights to believe what they want and at the same time, tell them they are stupid, feeble-minded, or less intelligent then Atheists?

Shouldn't they be encouraging people to believe what they want?

And I don't feel that all beliefs are equal in that they should be allowed to voice their opinion. Any group that outright says they want to do harm to others, shouldn't be allowed to see the light of day.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,569,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am not trying to attack anyone or say that Atheists are wrong. I just want to know why some atheists claim to stand up for peoples rights to believe what they want and at the same time, tell them they are stupid, feeble-minded, or less intelligent then Atheists?

Shouldn't they be encouraging people to believe what they want?

And I don't feel that all beliefs are equal in that they should be allowed to voice their opinion. Any group that outright says they want to do harm to others, shouldn't be allowed to see the light of day.
There is no contradiction in standing up for a persons right to say stupid things, and then tell the person that what they believe is stupid.

It's simply confirms the fact that the government doesn't have the right suppress speech, regardless of how illogical that speech may be.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:28 PM
 
705 posts, read 916,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am just curious how so many of you believe in the bill of rights and will fight for those rights, yet at the same time, bash people for their religious beliefs?

I know quite a few atheists who think it is everyone's right to be free of religious persecution. Yet at the same time, they attempt to force their views that all religions are wrong and that they shouldn't believe what they do. This makes no sense. You are either open to people believing what they want to and believe they have the right to do so, or you are against their beliefs and don't think they have the right to believe them.

Maybe I am missing something. If I am fill me in. This is not an attempt to bash atheists, I am just curious to know why many atheists are like this?
33 years ago I took an oath to support the US Constitution and I have always lived up to that oath. I always will.

If you really listen to the atheists you allude to, you may just get enlightened.

You and everyone else has the right to bellieve as you wish and as you see fit. But everyone else also has the right to express their views just as you have a right to express yours.

I have engaged in some very inteligent discussions with delusional types, yet I have also experienced the outright ignorance as wel as just how vile some of the delusional types can truly be.

I can't see where anyone has an argument when they get questioned if they profess their belief in such puerile nonsense. It works both ways. Not all atheists are like what you are describing.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,900 posts, read 18,450,622 times
Reputation: 13735
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post

I am asking a simple question. If you don't want to answer it and just avoid it, then why post? I recently red a few articles on why religion and spirituality are false, these books offer no proof for their claims. Like All atheists say, lack of proof is not proof. These books make outright claims that religion and spirituality are false, the burden of proof falls on them now. They are making an outright claim with no empirical data whatsoever.

I am not trying to attack anyone or say that Atheists are wrong. I just want to know why some atheists claim to stand up for peoples rights to believe what they want and at the same time, tell them they are stupid, feeble-minded, or less intelligent then Atheists?

Shouldn't they be encouraging people to believe what they want?

And I don't feel that all beliefs are equal in that they should be allowed to voice their opinion. Any group that outright says they want to do harm to others, shouldn't be allowed to see the light of day.
Atheist claims are NOT without empirical evidence. Maybe you've heard of a little, backwater set of institutions called SCIENCE with only tens of thousands of labs, universities and governments with billions of dollars invested into figuring out what makes the universe tick. They've only been doing it for what, 500 years now?!

You put together all that seperate reasearch into a understanding of everything that all fits more or less coherently and logically together. Entomologists agree with Anthropologists and Molecular biologists and Paleontologists that evolutionary theory accurately and logically explains what they see in their different studies, for example, and the same thing works with a whole library of subjects.

Try to get a group of Baptists, Mormons and Catholics to do that, much less Christian, Muslim and Judaism.

And no, people should NOT be encouraged to believe what they want. They have that right in the end, but ignorance must be fought to make the world better for all.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:33 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,057,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
I am just curious how so many of you believe in the bill of rights and will fight for those rights, yet at the same time, bash people for their religious beliefs?
I'm not sure what the problem is. I defend the right of people to believe in who or what they choose, just as I assert the right to bash the beliefs of those that I defend.

That is the nature of free speech.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:41 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,212,693 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
.
I am not trying to attack anyone or say that Atheists are wrong. I just want to know why some atheists claim to stand up for peoples rights to believe what they want and at the same time, tell them they are stupid, feeble-minded, or less intelligent then Atheists?
If someone believes in creation and throws away all the solid scientific evidence of evolution, they *are* stupid. If someone believes it when their pastor tells them homosexuality is a sin and that gays shouldn't marry, they *are* feeble-minded. If someone thinks that prayer is actually anything other than mental masturbation, they *are* less intelligent than an atheist.

Believe what you like. Be as stupid as you like. Believe whatever your pastor tells you and don't question it. But the second those beliefs start to encroach on the equal rights that everyone should enjoy, that's where you'll get a fight from me.

Also, if you're putting flyers on the cars in the parking lot at the grocery store, and I come out and find your litter on my windshield, you can expect me to ball it up and come give it back to you with a few choice words. If you approach my child in any way and try to "share" jebus with them or lure them away to your "vacation bible school" or entice them to pray with you, you *will* feel my wrath. If you knock on my door and try to proselytize to me, be prepared for me to be overtly rude, and if you don't leave my property fast enough, I may let my dog out to help you along.

If you don't do any of these things, then it's vanishingly unlikely that you'll ever cross paths with me.
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