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Old 09-22-2011, 06:47 PM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,577,733 times
Reputation: 2202

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Why can't atheists allow people of faith to exercise that faith without ridicule? I find much to ridicule about atheism, but I refrain out of respect for someone's belief. I also find that atheists spend an inordinant amount of time on God. If you don't believe in God, don't. But have the common decency to live and let live, for goodness sake.
Sure, we'll leave them alone as soon as they allow gay marriage across the board, stop using delusional messages from their god to go to war, killing thousands of young people in the process, using their religion to excuse pedophilia, child abuse, and just flat our ignorance and hatred.

The problem that people have with religion is its detrimental effects on a progressive society. If you aren't participating, good for you, but your constituents are seriously hurting a lot of people physically and mentally.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,075,019 times
Reputation: 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Why can't atheists allow people of faith to exercise that faith without ridicule? I find much to ridicule about atheism, but I refrain out of respect for someone's belief. I also find that atheists spend an inordinant amount of time on God. If you don't believe in God, don't. But have the common decency to live and let live, for goodness sake.
Hmm.... Why does your post not surprise me? After my straightforward previous post, you come along with the intent to undermine a potentially useful conversation. Typical.

The simple answer to your hostile injection, kiggy (and I have come to expect this from you, BTW...), is that this is a forum dedicated to the open discussion of each individual's personal philosophical position on Religion.

We come here to openly air our various viewpoints, when all you want from us is unthinking, unquestioning and blindered acceptance? To quote King James: "Not bloody likely!"

FACT: I [and all other atheists I know or read] do not attempt to ridicule anyone's personal beliefs, but for all the reasons very well covered in this, and indeed, many other fora, it's necessary for some of us to correct what we see as the relentless and disrespectful disparaging of atheism and it's supposedly evil effects on society. Rather it's been the debilitating and destructive effects of organized religion, [and in particular Christianity! Ask any Muslim following The Crusades!!] on a number of societies. In education, in science, in social morés, and in laws that attempt to govern our behavior. Too much meddling, and you know it.

The same society Christians inevitably want to inject their discredited values on, forcibly if our historical past is any indication, upon our Constitutionally guaranteed secular state of education and government. Not to mention the guarantees in the US of personal religious freedom "from" or "of".

As well, we have grown tired of such relentless demonizing (of both our beliefs and of science per se), and therefore we will, you bet, fight back. Having said that, I have offered once again (see above!) my participation in a polite and rational discsussion.

Now of course, kiggy, I'd not expect you to want to be part of that simple exposition of "the facts in evidence", based on your previous demonstration of hostility towards the subject, and your complete lack of interest in the past in answering even the simplest of questions.

Prove me wrong and participate here but without your usual animosity. OK?

I personally invite you to participate, but with civility and respect. You up for it?
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:53 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,221,279 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Why can't atheists allow people of faith to exercise that faith without ridicule? I find much to ridicule about atheism, but I refrain out of respect for someone's belief. I also find that atheists spend an inordinant amount of time on God. If you don't believe in God, don't. But have the common decency to live and let live, for goodness sake.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and ridiculous claims deserve ridicule.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:21 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,258,763 times
Reputation: 8261
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Why can't atheists allow people of faith to exercise that faith without ridicule? I find much to ridicule about atheism, but I refrain out of respect for someone's belief. I also find that atheists spend an inordinant amount of time on God. If you don't believe in God, don't. But have the common decency to live and let live, for goodness sake.
No one ridicules any believer UNTIL they choose to impart their superstition based ignorance upon society. By efforts to impose your bias and hatred into laws that effect society. When presidents become the first in US history to ever invade a sovereign country because he is so delusional he thinks god told him to. Even striving to have the superstition taught as science to every kid in school.

I don't care what fanciful delusion circulate in your head, and just like your genitals, keep it private and out of society and our laws and there are no problems. Cross that line ............ problem .............. for I will defend my freedoms to live free from your fanciful delusions, in turn you are free to knock yourself out with what ever floats your boat, in private.

Atheists spend no time concerned about god........ why would we, for it is just a character from some old fable. However the religious that are imposing the insanity of this character are a problem, for they are the greatest threat to mankind's future we face.

Take your own advise...... live and let live......... Which since the concept seems to have eluded you, means keep your silly superstitions out of the society and laws we all have to live with.

Last edited by Asheville Native; 09-22-2011 at 08:29 PM..
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,934,929 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
33 years ago I took an oath to support the US Constitution and I have always lived up to that oath. I always will.

If you really listen to the atheists you allude to, you may just get enlightened.
I think the same with about my beliefs. If you actually listened and experienced them first hand, you might be enlightened. I do listen to atheists, all the time... still haven't been enlightened. Thing is, I agree with them on evolution, and stuff like that. I don't follow any major religion. My beliefs are my own. I believe that science is right about MOST things. Science explains the how, but very seldom does it explain the why.

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You and everyone else has the right to bellieve as you wish and as you see fit. But everyone else also has the right to express their views just as you have a right to express yours.

I have engaged in some very inteligent discussions with delusional types, yet I have also experienced the outright ignorance as wel as just how vile some of the delusional types can truly be.
Delusional types? Are you talking about spiritual/religious people? It's not delusional to have hope that there is something more out there than we can see with our "Science".
Quote:
I can't see where anyone has an argument when they get questioned if they profess their belief in such puerile nonsense. It works both ways. Not all atheists are like what you are describing.
No not all atheists are like that, I never said all were. Just a group that I know personally.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,934,929 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Atheist claims are NOT without empirical evidence. Maybe you've heard of a little, backwater set of institutions called SCIENCE with only tens of thousands of labs, universities and governments with billions of dollars invested into figuring out what makes the universe tick. They've only been doing it for what, 500 years now?!
When an atheist claims that there is no God or higher being, whatever you want to call it. That is a claim, they claim to know this for a fact. Prove it. Prove to me right now there isn't a God or a magical unicorn that farts rainbows. I want physical proof for this claim. I am not making a claim that there IS. I am merely suggesting that there could be.

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You put together all that seperate reasearch into a understanding of everything that all fits more or less coherently and logically together. Entomologists agree with Anthropologists and Molecular biologists and Paleontologists that evolutionary theory accurately and logically explains what they see in their different studies, for example, and the same thing works with a whole library of subjects.
All that together still does not prove that spiritualists or religious people are wrong.
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Try to get a group of Baptists, Mormons and Catholics to do that, much less Christian, Muslim and Judaism.
Sheep follow the herd, the herd follows their Shepard. I am not a sheep, I don't follow any herd. I have my own beliefs and don't care what anyone thinks of them.

Quote:
And no, people should NOT be encouraged to believe what they want. They have that right in the end, but ignorance must be fought to make the world better for all.
No, that makes the world better for you and atheists. If all religion and spirituality died off and atheists were all that was left, over time... spirituality and religion would come back. Why? Because it is a comfort for millions of people to think outside the box.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,934,929 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
If someone believes in creation and throws away all the solid scientific evidence of evolution, they *are* stupid. If someone believes it when their pastor tells them homosexuality is a sin and that gays shouldn't marry, they *are* feeble-minded. If someone thinks that prayer is actually anything other than mental masturbation, they *are* less intelligent than an atheist.
I agree with you on evolution and homosexuality to a point. Maybe they haven't had it explained to them in the right way or by the right person. However, prayer is not just mental masturbation.

Quote:
Believe what you like. Be as stupid as you like. Believe whatever your pastor tells you and don't question it. But the second those beliefs start to encroach on the equal rights that everyone should enjoy, that's where you'll get a fight from me.
I will be standing right next to you in that fight. I think that no form of religion or lack of religion should be in the government.
Quote:
Also, if you're putting flyers on the cars in the parking lot at the grocery store, and I come out and find your litter on my windshield, you can expect me to ball it up and come give it back to you with a few choice words. If you approach my child in any way and try to "share" jebus with them or lure them away to your "vacation bible school" or entice them to pray with you, you *will* feel my wrath. If you knock on my door and try to proselytize to me, be prepared for me to be overtly rude, and if you don't leave my property fast enough, I may let my dog out to help you along.
And this is where I back away from that fight. I think that people should be allowed to share their religion, but not force it. Do you feel the same way about fast food joints or bands that do these things? Do you shout at boy scouts for asking if you want to buy cookies?

Ever heard the term kill them with kindness? How about patience?
Quote:
If you don't do any of these things, then it's vanishingly unlikely that you'll ever cross paths with me.
Nope, I keep to myself aside from these forums and casual conversations with people. I don't go around trying to recruit.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,934,929 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Lets face it, religious people just aren't good debaters. They've never developed that part of their minds; you just can't argue rationally with an irrational mindset.

Maybe we should send an atheist over to debate for them... you know, as an act of goodwill ?
Religious people aren't good debaters? Who was the last Atheist president? Maybe it is that atheists and theists think differently. Neither is more intelligent, just different.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,934,929 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
It is not my problem if believers are unable to separate their beliefs from their person.

I know of plenty of people who will say the beliefs are stupid, but not many that call the person holding them stupid.
A few on this forum just have... actually most of you have.
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It seems to me that your last statement is bordering on a personal attack against people on this forum.
Nope, not a personal attack.

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A perfect example....You have just bashed Bush personally for what he believes.
Nope again, I could care less for bushes beliefs. I just think the man himself is an idiot.


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The one with silly claims bears the burden of proof. Your attempt to reverse that fails.
That is not how it works. You make a claim, you better be able to back it up. That is atheist rule #2. It just seems their own rules don't apply to them.

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Even the feeble minded have the right to believe what they want.
Yes, everyone does. Who are these feeble minds you speak of?

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You mean like the American military?
Actually, the American military states they are there for defense and protection. Not quite the same thing.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,705,281 times
Reputation: 12220
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
A few on this forum just have... actually most of you have.
Most of us have called believers stupid? I wonder why haven't I noticed that?


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Nope again, I could care less for bushes beliefs. I just think the man himself is an idiot.
How is that not personal?


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That is not how it works. You make a claim, you better be able to back it up. That is atheist rule #2. It just seems their own rules don't apply to them.
What claim are you saying atheists make, other than not believing in god? How does that need to be backed up?
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Yes, everyone does. Who are these feeble minds you speak of?
They exist, just look around you. There are many here that rely on dogma rather than their own intelligence...When the mind is not used, what else can you call it but feeble?

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Actually, the American military states they are there for defense and protection. Not quite the same thing.
There is a vast difference between what the military says and their actions. Was the invasion of Iraq or Vietnam defense?

Last edited by sanspeur; 09-22-2011 at 10:15 PM..
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