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Old 09-21-2011, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,924 posts, read 8,503,480 times
Reputation: 11621

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Psychological norms.

What does that mean? Well if 90% or so of the population behave in such and such a way it is considered normal. Normal? Well 90% plus of the population are heterosexual. The rest not so much, but hey nothing wrong with that. To each their own.

But what if that 10% or less minority decided that the other 90% were delusional? Or devient? And said as much on the interweb.


Why are we expected to 'respect' other people's delusions?


Yes I am talking to atheists here. Please folk, don't call the majority of humanity delusional (a mental illness term). If anything the 10% or less folk who behave different than the majority would be considered as mentally ill if push came to shove. Just sayin'.


To quote some historical author: All the world is mad, save you and me and I wonder about you. There is a reason why 90% plus of the human race is spiritual. The rest of you? Hmm..........
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,039 posts, read 30,710,365 times
Reputation: 12220
The three criteria of delusion.

1 Certainty (held with absolute conviction)
2 Incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
3 Impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

Considering these I would have to say that many theists are deluded, but you can decide for yourself if you are in that group or not.

Lets see an atheist's take on these.

1 Certainty (held with absolute conviction).....most atheists do not say they are certain there is no god.
2 Incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary).....Show an atheist proof, or convincing evidence and he/she will change their minds
3 Impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)......... I don't see how this even applies to atheists
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,914 posts, read 18,480,490 times
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OK, lets tear this apart...

A "norm" is consensus. Most people agree people get squished into road putty when they step in front of a speeding bus, and agree they are humans, not chickens for example.

The minds that make up a "norm" are all biologically similar (with some natural variation and loose screws here and there, of course), yet are all different because everyone "programs" their minds through individual life experience. True, nobody is the same, but we are far more similar than we like to think; especially if we compare the human species to other species on the planet.

True as well that none of those minds can truly experience reality objectively; they are all experiencing models of reality as translated from not always accurate information collected through the senses by the individual minds. But then again observation of nature in a world that operates under the mantra "kill or be killed" might tend to argue that such models are evolved to be pretty damn accurate representations... because if they weren't, we wouldn't be here for this very fun and entertaining exercise.

Now accepting our limitations and recognizing our strenths, we look at the second part of the problem:

Most of us agree that if I was to go to the top of the mountain, burn a goat and shout "Oh lord, guide me!" I would not hear a booming voice tell me to lead my people across the Great Basin to Reno. If I put my hands on a dead corpse and commanded it to live, likewise, it would still remain gross and corpse-ified.

But here's where atheists and theists part ways. Atheists agree that if it doesn't happen to me, it ain't gonna happen no matter who sacrifices the goat and appeals to the heavens, because essentially we are all variations on the same theme with the same general cognitive strengths and liabilities.

Theists believe it did happen so some people many, many years ago. Not only that, but they believe that what ever was supposedly said by the booming voice to a goat-toasting mountain climber or by the corpse raiser thousands of years ago is directly applicable to their own lives today.

What's more, they ignore the fact that over the thousands of years since the words of the booming voice were supposedly written down, generation after generation has repeated the story, altered it to fit their culture and languages, was demonstrably used directly by less-than-holy-men for the explicit purpose of gaining influence and control over people and has absolutely no verification of it's validity otherwise.

What exactly ISN'T delusional about that?
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,844 posts, read 7,581,449 times
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Just because 90% of people believe in something does not make it true.

God either exists, or does not. What 90% of people think actually has zero effect on the objective truth of the (non) existence of god.

Lets take it a different way. There are approximately 7 billion people on the planet. Of these, about 2 billion are christians. That means that the majority of the world population thinks that christianity is wrong.

So, are you going to stop being a christian simply because most of the people on the planet think that you are wrong for doing so?
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:03 PM
 
Location: California
4,445 posts, read 5,181,592 times
Reputation: 9180
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The three criteria of delusion.

1 Certainty (held with absolute conviction)
2 Incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
3 Impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

Considering these I would have to say that many theists are deluded, but you can decide for yourself if you are in that group or not.

Lets see an atheist's take on these.

1 Certainty (held with absolute conviction).....most atheists do not say they are certain there is no god.
2 Incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary).....Show an atheist proof, or convincing evidence and he/she will change their minds
3 Impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)......... I don't see how this even applies to atheists



I couldn't agree with you more...very well said!
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,924 posts, read 8,503,480 times
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Hmm, the "crazy people" think that the sane are nuts. Typical with mentally ill people.

But my real point is: please don't say that 90% of people are delusional. It is very normal to be spiritual. Get it?

From a behavioral POV the real question is why do atheists behave as they do? It's not normal. Further, why do they believe that Normal People are delusional? Classic Schizo mindset. "I am sane, but the rest of the world is nuts."

Just sayin' to make a point.

You're not nuts. OK?
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
15,920 posts, read 12,483,036 times
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I don't want to be different, so I'm gonna become a theist. Lets see, I'm gonna worship a purple monkey called Grorg, he can do anything, anytime, to anyone.

It's so refreshing not being a loser atheist anymore, and I'm in the majority (bonus points).
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,924 posts, read 8,503,480 times
Reputation: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The three criteria of delusion.

1 Certainty (held with absolute conviction)
2 Incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
3 Impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)
Sounds like most Republicans and Democrats in the US.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,039 posts, read 30,710,365 times
Reputation: 12220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Hmm, the "crazy people" think that the sane are nuts. Typical with mentally ill people.

But my real point is: please don't say that 90% of people are delusional. It is very normal to be spiritual. Get it?

From a behavioral POV the real question is why do atheists behave as they do? It's not normal. Further, why do they believe that Normal People are delusional? Classic Schizo mindset. "I am sane, but the rest of the world is nuts."

Just sayin' to make a point.

You're not nuts. OK?
Sheesh, I thought my explanation pretty much covered it...Have you decided if you fit the three criteria of delusion yet?
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,112,487 times
Reputation: 1638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Hmm, the "crazy people" think that the sane are nuts. Typical with mentally ill people.

But my real point is: please don't say that 90% of people are delusional. It is very normal to be spiritual. Get it?

From a behavioral POV the real question is why do atheists behave as they do? It's not normal. Further, why do they believe that Normal People are delusional? Classic Schizo mindset. "I am sane, but the rest of the world is nuts."

Just sayin' to make a point.

You're not nuts. OK?
You keep using the word "normal" when I think "average" would be a better word choice.

It is very easy to be spiritual and delusion free. The two are not mutually exclusive.

If you take your 90% number and make a gradient from least delusional to most delusional, I hope most people would be closer to the least delusional end of the spectrum.

There are plenty of believers here that I admire greatly and don't consider to be delusional.
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