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Old 09-22-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Capital Hill
1,602 posts, read 2,634,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
[LEFT]I would also like to know what Muslims think on this topic.

But I found it odd that you quoted leviticus in referrence to homosexuals, but none of these other laws which should be equally in effect:

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
If a priest's daughter is a *****, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)




So do you only want to enforce the laws against homosexuality found in leviticus, or do you want to do ALL of leviticus?

[/LEFT]
OK, fair enough. Remember, I am not expressing my own personal opinion. But I have been studying the books that Paul wrote in the New Testimont. Paul was continually having trouble with the Jewish zelots which he refurred to as 'The Judaizers'. They were continually following him around trying to disrupt and dispute his teaching. They even hired thugs to try to kill him. The Judaizing Pharisees appealed to the authority of the letter of the Old Testament and it's over 300 different laws of which you see some in Leviticus and you have pointed out, without the spiritual understanding of how the symbols had been fulfilled in Christ. They failed to recognize that once Christ- to whom all the 'symbols' pointed- had come, these became not only obsolete but actually detrimental to faith. Even more, these Judaizers appealed to the former traditions that they insisted were also binding. Circumcision was a big issue with them, as an example. Paul was teaching and converting Gentils. The Judaizers were telling these gentils that they must become jewish first, get circumcised, and follow the old jewish laws before they could ever become Christians. This was just the opposite to what Paul was preaching. He was preaching to become a Christian you must only have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that he died for our sins and that he is coming back. When he died for our sins, he made the old jewish laws obsolete. The Judaizers could not stand for this 'blasphemy'.
However, you have not explained what 'Paul' meant in I Corinthians 6:9-10, Romans 1:26-27, Galations 1:6-10, Rev. 14:12, and John 14-15, in the New Testimont.
Remember, this is not about my opinion or about my original post. I was only asking the difference between what the Bible says about homosexuality as opposed to the Koran. I simply wanted to know if these books agreed or had opposing viewpoints.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,691,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylly View Post
OK, fair enough. Remember, I am not expressing my own personal opinion. But I have been studying the books that Paul wrote in the New Testimont. Paul was continually having trouble with the Jewish zelots which he refurred to as 'The Judaizers'. They were continually following him around trying to disrupt and dispute his teaching. They even hired thugs to try to kill him. The Judaizing Pharisees appealed to the authority of the letter of the Old Testament and it's over 300 different laws of which you see some in Leviticus and you have pointed out, without the spiritual understanding of how the symbols had been fulfilled in Christ. They failed to recognize that once Christ- to whom all the 'symbols' pointed- had come, these became not only obsolete but actually detrimental to faith. Even more, these Judaizers appealed to the former traditions that they insisted were also binding. Circumcision was a big issue with them, as an example. Paul was teaching and converting Gentils. The Judaizers were telling these gentils that they must become jewish first, get circumcised, and follow the old jewish laws before they could ever become Christians. This was just the opposite to what Paul was preaching. He was preaching to become a Christian you must only have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that he died for our sins and that he is coming back. When he died for our sins, he made the old jewish laws obsolete. The Judaizers could not stand for this 'blasphemy'.
However, you have not explained what 'Paul' meant in I Corinthians 6:9-10, Romans 1:26-27, Galations 1:6-10, Rev. 14:12, and John 14-15, in the New Testimont.
Remember, this is not about my opinion or about my original post. I was only asking the difference between what the Bible says about homosexuality as opposed to the Koran. I simply wanted to know if these books agreed or had opposing viewpoints.
Who cares? They are both wrong anyway.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,572,373 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylly View Post
OK, fair enough. Remember, I am not expressing my own personal opinion. But I have been studying the books that Paul wrote in the New Testimont. Paul was continually having trouble with the Jewish zelots which he refurred to as 'The Judaizers'. They were continually following him around trying to disrupt and dispute his teaching. They even hired thugs to try to kill him. The Judaizing Pharisees appealed to the authority of the letter of the Old Testament and it's over 300 different laws of which you see some in Leviticus and you have pointed out, without the spiritual understanding of how the symbols had been fulfilled in Christ. They failed to recognize that once Christ- to whom all the 'symbols' pointed- had come, these became not only obsolete but actually detrimental to faith. Even more, these Judaizers appealed to the former traditions that they insisted were also binding. Circumcision was a big issue with them, as an example. Paul was teaching and converting Gentils. The Judaizers were telling these gentils that they must become jewish first, get circumcised, and follow the old jewish laws before they could ever become Christians. This was just the opposite to what Paul was preaching. He was preaching to become a Christian you must only have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that he died for our sins and that he is coming back. When he died for our sins, he made the old jewish laws obsolete. The Judaizers could not stand for this 'blasphemy'.
However, you have not explained what 'Paul' meant in I Corinthians 6:9-10, Romans 1:26-27, Galations 1:6-10, Rev. 14:12, and John 14-15, in the New Testimont.
Remember, this is not about my opinion or about my original post. I was only asking the difference between what the Bible says about homosexuality as opposed to the Koran. I simply wanted to know if these books agreed or had opposing viewpoints.
The problem here is that Jesus specifically said he didn't come to overturn the law.

For example, here in Mark 7:10, Jesus specifically rebukes citizens who have gotten away from the tradition of killing the children who curse their parents:

So as a Christian you are still left to wonder whether you should be against homosexuality, but not for killing petulant children.

Quote:
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Englewood, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Who cares? They are both wrong anyway.
In your limited opinion.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:21 PM
 
4,480 posts, read 4,222,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
In your limited opinion.

Just let a old book tell you what your opinion is. Good thinking.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Capital Hill
1,602 posts, read 2,634,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
The problem here is that Jesus specifically said he didn't come to overturn the law.

For example, here in Mark 7:10, Jesus specifically rebukes citizens who have gotten away from the tradition of killing the children who curse their parents:

So as a Christian you are still left to wonder whether you should be against homosexuality, but not for killing petulant children.
OK, lets look at Mark 7:10. First let's look at Mark 7:6-9, where Christ is speaking to the Pharisees. Vs.6: He replied " Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is writtlen:"'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Vs:7, They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by man.' Vs:8, You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men". Vs:9, And he said to them: "you have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions of men'.
Now let's go into Mark 7:10 where Christ continues, 'For 'Moses' said, 'Honor your father or mother, and, 'anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".
From my Bible this doesn't sound to me like Christ is telling the people to kill their children that curse their parents. It's the Pharisees and their laws, which are the laws of 'man', that are telling this and not from Jesus Christ the son of God who is rebuking them.
So, now would you explain to us Paul's words in I Corinthians 6:9-10?
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:25 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,462,455 times
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frame #6 says it all.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,691,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
In your limited opinion.
Well at least my opinion on the subject of homosexuality is my own...You have to get yours out of an ancient book.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:37 PM
 
15,727 posts, read 9,121,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylly View Post
So, now would you explain to us Paul's words in I Corinthians 6:9-10?
What about it? Homosexual did not exist in that verse until 1958 A.D. It was added by conservative bible publishers to attack gays. The word they translated to that, was a word that Paul invented. That word was universally believed to condemn masturbators for the entire Reformation. According to Philo, a contemporary of Paul and Jewish law expert, it most likely meant pagan prostitutes, which is paralleled to the Leviticus verses which also condemn pagan prostitution.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:56 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,572,373 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylly View Post
OK, lets look at Mark 7:10. First let's look at Mark 7:6-9, where Christ is speaking to the Pharisees. Vs.6: He replied " Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is writtlen:"'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Vs:7, They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by man.' Vs:8, You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men". Vs:9, And he said to them: "you have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions of men'.
Now let's go into Mark 7:10 where Christ continues, 'For 'Moses' said, 'Honor your father or mother, and, 'anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".
From my Bible this doesn't sound to me like Christ is telling the people to kill their children that curse their parents. It's the Pharisees and their laws, which are the laws of 'man', that are telling this and not from Jesus Christ the son of God who is rebuking them.
So, now would you explain to us Paul's words in I Corinthians 6:9-10?
You know how the muslims always make up a forced interpretation of the Koran to keep from admitting errors and omissions? That's what you just did with the bible.

Easily the most natural reading of that text is that Jesus was admonishing the crowd to keep Mosiac laws, and used the killing of children as an example. But you find that interpretation distasteful, so you reject it and try to force another.

As for Corinthians 6-9-10, it says,:

Quote:
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
It looks to me like it takes a dim view of homosexuality... just as it does adultery, greed, drunkenness, slander, and sexually immorality in general.


So when will we see the ballot initiative on adultery?

Or what about criminalizing sexual immorality such as pre-marital sex, oral or otherwise? Greed?

Nope, no one is going to vote to outlaw that stuff.

If not bigotry, why are we only concerned with using the force of the law to prevent the sins that apply to gay people, but not the ones that apply to straight people?
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