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Old 10-19-2011, 06:24 AM
 
3,488 posts, read 3,148,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
Weaker? In what way? Perhaps you are unaware of some the famous gays and lesbians who have had a big impact on history and culture?

Would you call Alexander the Great 'weak' for example?
I told myself I wanted to avoid politics, but I at least want to make one observation about Alexander the Great.

Not a good example, since Greek bisexuality was common during that age. Alexander was not, what we would strictly term, a homosexual, and a homosexual only - such strict qualifications would not have been known in the ancient world. Julius Caesar, of later Rome, was a 'bisexual' who used his effeminate proclivities to his political advantage - his men poked fun at him because of this. Not because he was engaging in homosexuality, but because he chose to be on the 'receiving' end of it. The manly thing to do, back then, was to be the dominant partner. Being the object of anal sex was considered feminine, and unmanly - it was reserved for women, boys and male prostitutes, usually.

This age was one of those time periods in which environment did influence sexual habits - despite what some modern studies may claim about environment having absolutely no role in sexuality. Tell that to the Greek youths who were raised by older men into a homosexual relationship, where the youth learned the ways of his people in exchange for glorified sexual favors, until they became an older man - and continued the tradition. Like the example of Caesar, it was common for definate roles to be assumed.

Hellenism spread throughout the ancient world - and with it, various sexual practices became more normalized. This can be shown - if you place any credence in historians and anthropologists - to be not merely a genetic influence (what a conicedence THAT would be!), but also environmental, social, religious and geographical.

For an interesting look at sexual roles, see Reign of the Phallus: Sexual Politics in Ancient Athens by Eva C. Keuls, (1985). Chapter 11, The Boy Beautiful: Replacing a Woman or Replacing a Son? is especially interesting, as the title should show.

I still feel sexuality is not as simple as some have asserted here, and the above is just one aspect of it that can be explored critically.

As for "weak" great figures of history, Alexander drank himself to death after the death of his male lover. I'm not sure if we can make a judgement on this - whether this belies a "weakness" or not. But the suggestion has been made.

 
Old 10-19-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,658 posts, read 7,461,082 times
Reputation: 3244
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
...As for "weak" great figures of history, Alexander drank himself to death after the death of his male lover. I'm not sure if we can make a judgement on this - whether this belies a "weakness" or not. But the suggestion has been made.

As opposed to the myriad people that have gotten depressed and adopted dangerous behaviors after their heterosexual lovers had died?

I'm not sure where you think you're going with this....
 
Old 10-19-2011, 08:59 AM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,606,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
That is an interesting argument, but it's an argument for allowing gay marriage.

Because marriage would encourage long-term monogamy and significantly reduce the consequences you are concerned about.

So if you are truly concerned about the health consequences, and not about the "naturalness" of the act, it would seem logical to support gay marriage.
You'd think that maybe commitment would prevent the spread of disease.
Yet, several studies I've read indicate otherwise. The longer a homosexual couple is together, the more likely they cheat on their partner. In another study, (I think it was in England) lesbians statistically had sex with more men, than heterosexual women.

Homosexuals currently already have "rights" as couples - under cohabitation laws etc. The only reason to legalize gay marriage is to try to force society to legally accept homosexuality. If that's not enough, it also discredits the known importance of mothers & fathers, by indicating that children can thrive without one or the other.
 
Old 10-19-2011, 09:36 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,275 posts, read 10,383,387 times
Reputation: 6937
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
You'd think that maybe commitment would prevent the spread of disease.
Yet, several studies I've read indicate otherwise. The longer a homosexual couple is together, the more likely they cheat on their partner. In another study, (I think it was in England) lesbians statistically had sex with more men, than heterosexual women.

Homosexuals currently already have "rights" as couples - under cohabitation laws etc. The only reason to legalize gay marriage is to try to force society to legally accept homosexuality. If that's not enough, it also discredits the known importance of mothers & fathers, by indicating that children can thrive without one or the other.
That's ridiculous! Lesbians have sex with women (by definition). You came into this thread and started posting things like "I heard" or "Studies show" or "statistically." Please post some links so we can actually see the bizarre sources of your information.
 
Old 10-19-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,098,790 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Is that really true? I doubt it. Gay men are notoriously promiscuous.
No, men are notoriously promiscuous.
 
Old 10-19-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,569,862 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
You'd think that maybe commitment would prevent the spread of disease.
Yet, several studies I've read indicate otherwise. The longer a homosexual couple is together, the more likely they cheat on their partner. In another study, (I think it was in England) lesbians statistically had sex with more men, than heterosexual women.

Homosexuals currently already have "rights" as couples - under cohabitation laws etc. The only reason to legalize gay marriage is to try to force society to legally accept homosexuality. If that's not enough, it also discredits the known importance of mothers & fathers, by indicating that children can thrive without one or the other.
The first study you reference does not compare homosexual couples with non-couples. It compares homosexual couples who are new to a relationship with homosexual couples who have been in a longer relationship. Accordingly, even if it were true it would be irrelevent.

Your second study is likewise irrelevent, even if true. It compares lesbians with heterosexuals, not married lesbians with unmarried lesbians.

Divorce is a much greater challenge to the importance of mothers and fathers, as that occurs significantly more often, and gay couples most often don't have children to begin with. Yet rarely do we find a ballot initiative to outlaw divorce.

Gay marriage does require society to "legally" accept homosexuality, since it would legally be tolerated in our democracy. But it doesn't require society to accept the morality of homosexuality.

I personally don't believe the government can or should stand in the place of clergy. I believe in a small government that fixes the roads and keeps the meth addicts out of my garage. I don't think the government is wise enough to decide who we should marry our how we should use our genitals.

Do you believe that a government should so powerful that it can decide who we can and can't marry? If so, what could it not decide?
 
Old 10-19-2011, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,933,001 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Is that really true? I doubt it. Gay men are notoriously promiscuous.
Divorce Rates Lower in States with Same-Sex Marriage - US News and World Report

Gay marriages last longer than straight ones | Take my wife, please (http://www.takemywifeplease.co.uk/gay-marriages-last-longer-than-straight-ones-132.html - broken link)

Yes it is true. Most of the LGBT people I know have had few (2-3)partners. Most Heterosexuals I know have had 5-20 partners. Guess what? I am heterosexual.

I honestly see nothing wrong with LGBT. I don't care what some books says about it. If you were to look through every book every written you and did exactly as it says... we would probably be laying in our beds doing nothing all day....
 
Old 10-19-2011, 11:25 AM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,606,222 times
Reputation: 1191
Homosexual couples ALREADY have rights under both Common Law Marriage...
Common-law marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...and they have rights under Cohabitation Agreements.
Cohabitation agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These rights may include, but are not limited to...
- Eligibility for health insurance benefits,
- Life insurance benefits,
- Child visitation rights,
- Hospital visitation rights,
- Inheritance when named in the deceased will &...
- For those under common law marriage - inheritance even without a will - called interstate succession,
- With common law marraige, courts may be ased to settle post-relationships property disputes,
- With common law marriage, alimony awards
- Domestic partners may also if entered a formal agreement for palimony prior to cohabitation
Marvin v Marvin, 18 Cal. 3d 660, 557 P.2d 106, 134 Cal. Rptr. 815 (Cal. 1976)

It's concerning how homosexuality is pushing it's way into the legal system & into others' lives, sometimes imposing "gay rights" over the rights of others.
This especially applies to legally redefining marriage & legalizing gay marriage, which can & has had significantly negative influences, especially on children...

It has been proven over & over that children do best being raised with a mother AND father.
Supporting gay marriage is devaluing mothers & fathers, claiming one or the other is not necessary, when BOTH are.
Children have the RIGHT to be raised by the 2 different, complimentary sexes that created & conceived them.

Children have the right to not be taught homosexuality in school. Yet, in places where gay marriage has been enacted, these rights have been infringed upon.
Freshmen were told not to tell their parents about a pro-gay seminar & were required to sign a confidentiality agreement (Derrfield, Illinois Mar. 2007).
In March, 2007, a Massachusetts high school banned parents from attending a seminar for students on how they can know they are homosexual.
In October, 2008, First graders (6 year-old students) were taken on a field trip to watch their lesbian teacher's wedding.
In Oct 2008, a Hayward CA public elementary school celebrated "Coming Out Day."

Normalizing & even encouraging children to explore homosexuality obviously causes more to experiment with homosexuality.
http://www.josephnicolosi.com/psycho...-the-sexually/

Also, others' rights have been infringed upon in favor of supporting gay rights.
In April 2008, an Albuquerque photographer was fined over $6,000 for refusing to be hired to photograph a lesbian couple's commitment ceremony.
In May, 2008, a black administrator was fired from the U of Toledo, Ohio, for writing an editorial objecting to the comparison of black discrimination to same-sex marriage.

An intolerant opponent of Proposition 8 even violently attacked & injured a Proposition supporter in Oct. 2008.

On November 19, 2008, eHarmony, a Christian-based matching service was forced by New Jersey's Division on Civil Rights to provide website matching services for homosexuals.

Redefining marriage is trying to impose a minority's belief on a majority, forcing social acceptance through the legal system & is causing harm to others in the process.

Last edited by SuperSoul; 10-19-2011 at 11:59 AM..
 
Old 10-19-2011, 11:27 AM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,606,222 times
Reputation: 1191
Prior to Dec. 1974, the American Psychological Association defined homosexuality as a disorder.
After being harrased by a gay activist group, the APA changed the definition of homosexuality, not out of scientific evidence, but out of political pressure.

The Born "Gay" Hoax |

Nobody is "born" gay any more than they are born anorexic. They may have tendencies, but environmental signals must be present for those tendencies to be expressed.
http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf
http://journalseek.net/cgi-bin/journ...uery=0004-0002
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/724179/posts

If it is accepted that one can't help how they act, they were just "born" that way... what does that imply for those with other sexual deviations?
http://www.narth.com/docs/pedcrisis.html
http://www.narth.com/docs/whatapa.html
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Hot...Statistcs.html

Last edited by SuperSoul; 10-19-2011 at 12:02 PM..
 
Old 10-19-2011, 11:30 AM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,606,222 times
Reputation: 1191
Gay marriage devalues the traditional family by devaluing mothers or fathers.
BOTH mothers AND fathers are needed. Gay marriage is saying, "No, kids don't really need a mother, or a father. Just moms or just dads are ok."
This is an obvious & provable lie. Many research findings & articles confirm that just as children are naturally created by the union of a man & women, children also benefit most from being raised by a MOTHER and a FATHER.

"Children Need Both A Mother And A Father"
Dr. A. Dean Byrd
http://www.narth.com...s/needboth.html

"Why Children need both Mother-Love and Father-Love"
Glenn T. Stanton
http://www.jashow.or...es/2SI0804G.pdf

"Mothers' and Fathers' Socializing Behaviors in Three Contexts: Links with Children's Peer Competence"
Pettit, Gregory S.; Brown, Elizabeth Glyn; Mize, Jacquelyn; Lindsey, Eric
http://www.eric.ed.g...&accno=EJ563106

"Why Children Need a Mother and a Father"
Bill Muehlenberg
http://www.billmuehl...r-and-a-father/
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