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Old 09-23-2011, 10:02 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,218,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
Agnostics search. Atheist have concluded.
Oh, when will you get your terms correct? Broadly defined:

Agnostics have decided that they'll never know if certain things exist, that they are in fact unknowable. There is no reason to search if you believe you'll never find the answer anyway.

An atheist has learned that there is no evidence for the existence of any of the man-made gods. Until actual scientific evidence can be presented and tested to prove the existence of such a being or beings, an atheist dismisses their validity. Atheism does not claim "There is no god". Atheism claims "There is no evidence for any god."

Moderator cut: attack

Last edited by Miss Blue; 09-23-2011 at 01:30 PM..
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:39 AM
 
2,978 posts, read 2,256,851 times
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Moderator cut: orphaned quoted post

ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)n.1. a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

adj.1. Relating to or being an agnostic.
2. Doubtful or noncommittal: "Though I am agnostic on what terms to use, I have no doubt that human infants come with an enormous 'acquisitiveness' for discovering patterns" (William H. Calvin).
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agnostic

Last edited by Miss Blue; 09-23-2011 at 01:34 PM..
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,904 posts, read 18,471,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
Agnostics search. Atheist have concluded.
We've had this argument before many times, and the bottom line is the term "atheist" and "agnostic" mean whatever the hell the person calling himself "atheist" or "agnostic" want them to mean... just like the word "Christian". They are open for interpretation.

Anyway, I used that definition at first too, Gabfest... but I've evolved a bit since then.

You may be surprised to find there are very few atheists who would deny god if real scientific proof of god was ever found. Just like the discovery announced today that possible faster-than-light particles may have been found, atheists create and update their understanding of existence as they learn more; so that can't naturally be called a conclusion.

There are NO true conclusions...we are in a learning process that doesen't end 'till we take a boat down the Stix. Agnostics just haven't decided to take sides yet.
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:49 AM
 
118 posts, read 93,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
There is a persistent myth about atheism that goes a little something like this, “There are no true atheists . . . you’re just a bunch of petulant children throwing temper tantrums.” Theists tell me that we are not using logic and reason to refrain from believing in the magical claims from their book. We are just angry at god and upset because he won’t give us a Ferrari and so we stomp and whine about how much we hate sky daddy.

Atheism is Not a Temper Tantrum

I don't hold to that for a second, Mercury. I am a theist and know many intelligent, well spoken and articulate atheists. So, I agree that the stereotype in general is a false one.

That being said, unfortunately many atheists and theists alike DO act like children (I would venture to say some are) on these boards and act foolishly. That is where much of the impatience comes from, I think. Whenver an atheists posts I can tell right off the bat if they come to have an honest discussion or if they come just to trash my beliefs. I have to take breaks from posting... if I didn't I would probably lose my mind
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:52 AM
 
118 posts, read 93,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
Agnostics search. Atheist have concluded.
Gabfest, I actually think the agnostic has the worst stance possible. At least the Atheists are willing to stand firm and say they do not believe in God. An agnostic simply doesn't know. To me, agnosticism is the easy way out. Both the atheist and theist have a burden to furnish data as to why they believe what they believe.

The second definition you provided of agnosticism is telling:

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:13 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,254,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
Agnostics search. Atheist have concluded.
And theists refuse to search in their flight from self knowledge.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
5,596 posts, read 5,525,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
I call it like I see it. Atheist culture seems to be a culture of anger and childish potty-mouth.
Uh, well, if they act like that they are certainly not "true" athiests.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:52 PM
 
6,640 posts, read 3,864,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
There is a persistent myth about atheism that goes a little something like this, “There are no true atheists . . . you’re just a bunch of petulant children throwing temper tantrums.” Theists tell me that we are not using logic and reason to refrain from believing in the magical claims from their book. We are just angry at god and upset because he won’t give us a Ferrari and so we stomp and whine about how much we hate sky daddy.

Atheism is Not a Temper Tantrum
Oh, it's not a myth...many Atheists are all bolloxed-up over Theism...not all, but many.

But that is understandable...anyone on a team that is getting trounced by a record of 8Wins against 92Losses, would probably get kinda tweaked-out over it. Especially if they really thought they had the best "game" of any team in the league!

So they call the Theists, "delusional", "believers in myths/fairy tales", "not right in the head", and all manner of insults.
They willfully demonstrate what they KNOW is seen as great disrespect...by referring to what they know is viewed by Theists as sacred writings, as "The Buy Bull" or "Book of Myths/Fairy Tales", etc...and call prayer "mental masturbation".
They call Jesus "Hey Zeus", and refer to Deities as "Evil Sky-Daddy", etc.
They invent childish mock Gods like "The Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Invisible Pink Unicorns".
Any they specifically devoted thousands, and thousands, and thousands of the precious hours of their lives to disseminating this stuff.
Moderator cut: delete

Last edited by Miss Blue; 09-23-2011 at 03:35 PM.. Reason: bait
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:18 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,218,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baylorguy View Post
I don't hold to that for a second, Mercury. I am a theist and know many intelligent, well spoken and articulate atheists. So, I agree that the stereotype in general is a false one.
Sadly, I've encountered this very stereotype far too often. I've had it thrown at me many times in person, along with the same old phrases of "why don't you just kill yourself" and "atheists have no morals" and "you have nothing to live for" and "why don't you just go out raping and killing if there's no god".

I understand that not 100% of the religious believe we're offensive, but in the USA, it's far too common.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Here
1,684 posts, read 1,428,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Because it is the greatest threat that man could control to the future of mankind.

We learn of the Salem Witch Trials in history and think that could never happen now....... but in reality this level of ignorance is alive and well today. We are all part of mankind, and one doesn't have to look far to find atrocities that are worse, all religion based. Things like stoning a woman to death for being the victim of rape.
Well, you've gone into the notion that religion does more harm than good. I am an atheist and I've given this prospect some significant thought. First, a lot of events, both good and bad, that happen allegedly due to some religion, may have happened anyway. Religion was just sort of the excuse. 9/11 may have happened without Islam. People find a reason to become hostile and they stick a religious tag onto the anger and the subsequent reaction. I've heard of people sacrificing their lives in the name of God. Truth is, they were probably brave people who may well have sacrificed themselves anyway. I'm an atheist and once in a while one person or another has done me an injustice. If these people regret their act, I always forgive them. God doesn't tell me to forigve them. I am an atheist.

The thing is, I think religion gives some people hope and reassurance where there wouldn't be without it. I think there are good things and bad things that happen in the name of religion, but this particular brand of "reassurance" can only be found in religion. So when I wonder if the world would be better without religion. The final answer actually goes beyond historical events, or even non-historical events, and goes to an intangible, the human psyche.
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